Interviewer: All right, that's right,
so you've kind of gotten us through your high school time
and you're in college.
Tell me about kinda graduating college,
and then what did you do after that?
-: After I graduated from college,
there was a drilling contractor in Houston
called Dixilyn-Field Drilling Company.
They had a fleet of offshore rigs
and they needed someone to head up their drafting department
by being the draftsman and designer for seven engineers.
Lo and behold, they accidentally hired me.
Interviewer: Did you say accidentally?
-: No, they didn't accidentally. (laughs)
I was able to, one of the best jobs I had.
I learned a lot there and I was well-received
and I had jobs before then.
I worked with Pullman-Kellogg.
I worked in the oil field
and I've done instrumentation design again,
mechanical and structural design,
dealing with extremely deep water drilling equipment.
And I was presenting...
Back then the computer hadn't come out.
I remember the first computer
that I got exposed to was in '91.
My boss came in and he put it on my table.
He said, "Now, learn it."
And my first question was, "Man, how do you turn it on?"
And so that was in '91.
But then '91 was one heck of a transition period for me
because I received what you call
the call to the ministry.
Coming from that background,
I just never felt as though God could use me
in the ministry, but He has a sense of humor.
He said, "You're the exact one I need to use
because you can tell people what not to do.
Interviewer: Okay, so I'm gonna get to that.
I'm gonna back up just a little bit.
-: Yes, sir. Go ahead.
Interviewer: So you're working in the oil industry.
-: The oil industry, yeah.
Interviewer: What did you do specifically?
Kinda talk about it,
but what kinds of interactions did you have day-to-day
and did you feel any discrimination at that point?
-: Wow!
From a work standpoint, no,
because what I did when I worked...
I don't think I worked for 'em over,
maybe with two black engineers of color
over probably a 20-year period.
So I had to learn how to interact with people
of another color, with a different way
of presenting themselves.
They didn't talk slang.
Our era, we talk slang.
And as a result of that, that helped me to be able
to communicate in two worlds.
My world, after five o'clock when I got back to my world,
"Yo, bro, what it is?
Hey, man. Let's go (mumbles)."
And then that other world from eight to five,
where you had to use good English,
you had to present yourself a certain way,
which was fantastic.
As a result of that, I earned the respect
of the guys that I worked with.
Now, the only time I experienced discrimination
was on one situation.
Our company had a girl softball team.
And because I was athletic,
they asked if I would coach it.
And my biggest asset
is that I'm able to get along with people.
And so I was able to get along with the girls on the team.
None of 'em were my girlfriend.
I just treated them how I thought
they needed to be treated.
Well, that offended someone in my company.
And so they wrote this letter, a threat letter,
a hate letter to me, and it stayed on my...
I'll never forget it.
I was in my office at...
It stayed on my desk all day long
and I opened up this envelope and it was addressed to me.
They were using choice words.
Who do I think that I am dealing with these white people?
These white women.
And if I did not stop it, something would happen to me?
This was in, I think it's in '91.
1991.
Think about it now.
This wasn't in the '50s.
And it offended my boss.
It offended some people,
but if I had to do it again, I was very naive.
I told him, "Man, that's not even worth addressing."
And I shouldn't have done that.
And I let it slide, but I'll never forget that.
It was very...
It was hurtful because I knew what type of guy I was.
I knew I was straight up.
I know I didn't have a hidden agenda.
And for somebody just to perceive
and put me in a category really hurt.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
But in terms of being in that industry
and I deal with a lot...
You ever heard of Pascagoula, Mississippi?
I had to go to Pascagoula, Mississippi
and do a job and was treated well.
I was treated good.
I was treated well.
So, I guess my point is that the oil industry
was not as bad as I thought it was
in terms of being around racist.
If I were around them, and I think that I was,
they exposed themselves very carefully
other than that one time.
So I was very fortunate to that.
However, the things around me.
I would see my friends get the short end of the stick
only because of their color.
And so they thought I had something special.
I said, "Well, I don't think so."
So it was kind of where you were,
who you came in contact with,
how you presented yourself and that type thing.
Interviewer: I wanna ask you something real quick.
You mentioned code switching earlier.
Code switching, so like when you're around
a professional environment or with non-black people,
you speak a certain way than when you're at home
and you're comfortable.
That reminds me of being in college
and the pressure that you felt
kind of representing your race in a way.
Did you feel that- -: Representing the Greeks?
Interviewer: The race.
Representing black people or making sure
that they didn't have a bad impression.
Did you feel a certain amount
of pressure or tension constantly?
Or how was that for you?
-: Are you familiar with historically black fraternities
and sororities? -: Yes.
-: Are you a member of one, if you don't mind me asking?
Black fraternities and sororities spoke volumes
in who we were, because everybody that was a leader
throughout history was a part
of either historically black fraternity or sorority.
You take Martin Luther King, he was an Alpha.
You take Jesse Jackson, he's an Omega man.
I'm an Omega man.
And you know, what that did
is that just taught us a sense of pride.
It taught us versatility more so than anything.
Versatility is real and is quite important.
And so that's what I was expressing,
the versatility to be able to switch it on
and switch it off.
I had this book.
This is one of my engineering books.
Before the computer and the calculator came out,
this was a book called the Smoley's Handbook.
Had logarithms, it had trig functions
and things of that nature,
and I was taking a class.
I was walking across the campus
and a couple of my frat brothers saw me.
And because we were super cool,
they said, "Oh, man."
They used to call me Jay High.
They said, "Man, Jay got a Bible with him.
That's a Bible."
It looks like a Bible, doesn't it?
He said, "That's a Bible."
And I defended not having a Bible.
That hurt me more so than anything,
because I was brought up different than that.
And I had to explain to them
the difference between this book and a Bible.
So that's the only experience I have
in terms of that part of,
but being part of a fraternity changed my life
in terms of being bold,
being able to stand up, being fearless.
Interviewer: So, we're talking
about your individual response
which is incredibly interesting and powerful.
I'm wondering too, was there a more collective activism
in your youth that you were part of?
-: A collective...
Interviewer: Other groups besides the NAACP (indistinct).
Were there other groups that you...
-: Oh yes, yes.
Again like the fraternities and the sororities
but then your peers.
You hung around like-minded people.
You didn't have to be in an organization
that was so formal to be forceful to have a word.
You're gonna hang out and run with people
that think like you do.
The people that I ran with,
first, they were not allergic to work.
They didn't mind working.
They didn't mind going to school.
They just weren't the best person in the world.
They didn't mind partying on a Friday and Saturday night.
They had a problem getting up on Sunday morning
going to church.
They were the regular individual.
So if you start putting all these entities together,
you'll create a person that was well-rounded
and you're able to cope.
So the key word during my era
was coping with your situation.
I remember going to my first nightclub
when white people were there.
I was like, my mouth was wide open,
but I was (indistinct).
They ain't got no rhythm, they can't dance.
And I feel as though...
(both laughing)
They all let us have the floor
so we can dance.
Interviewer: And what about at work?
Did you ever come in contact with labor leaders
or the people who were involved in the labor movement?
-: No. No, I didn't. -: No.
-: Because we were not unionized in terms of that,
but you had people that had their opinions
and some were, being from this area.
And again, Houston as well, there were some issues
in terms of unions and being pro labor or anti labor.
I just wasn't involved with them.
I thought that was very fortunate.
Interviewer: What were those issues?
-: Probably the treatment of workers, beginning with colors.
I mean, could a journeyman electrician,
could he move up?
My uncle was a licensed electrician in Harrison County
which is in east Texas, Marshall, Texas.
He came to Beaumont and this was in the '90s,
and had a problem getting certified as an electrician
in this area because of the labor movement,
because of his color, that type thing.
So that was some discrimination in terms of that.
Interviewer: So, did you sympathize
with the labor movement or did you not?
How did you feel about this?
-: I didn't sympathize with it.
Interviewer: Why not?
-: Because it did not seem as though...
I'm on the outside looking in.
It just didn't seem as though they were looking out
for the betterment of the minority individual.
It just seemed as though that was just another segment
of society that discriminated against us.
I had enough of that.
Interviewer: It was one more organization-
-: Sure.
Because what happens when every segment of society
is backed up against you?
Interviewer: So you graduated college in-
-: 1976. -: '76.
Interviewer: And went to work.
Walk me through your first job out of college
up to the time you became manager.
How did you become involved with management?
-: Okay.
Again, after college, I had at least three jobs.
The longest I stayed on any one was about 10 years.
After that, I was doing contract work.
Interviewer: Doing what?
What were you doing for those years?
-: Well, I was working for a ship building company,
where I did all the structural work.
Structural design and fit form and function,
putting all these pieces together, if you would.
And I felt my call to the ministry in the summer of '91
at 40 years of age.
Now, from 26 to 40, I worked about three different jobs.
The longest I stayed on any one was about 10 years.
I was a drafting supervisor.
After becoming a drafting supervisor,
I got caught up in the numbers game
and so I was laid off.
And after I was laid off,
I was doing what they call contract work.
And that's when I was working
with the ship building company.
Well, so then I acknowledged my call to the ministry.
So, as I acknowledged my call to the ministry,
I was still working, maintaining a comfortable lifestyle
but then transitioned over to the ministry.
That was in '91.
In '93, I met a white guy from Madisonville, Texas
that was the pastor of the First Baptist Church.
He and I sat down and was talking just like you and I.
He made an appeal to me that blew me away.
He said, "Jerry, would you consider moving to Madisonville
and being a pastor in Madisonville, Texas?"
He said, "Man, your personality, this and this."
He said, "My church will help you.
He said, "Man, you got education.
You got to knowhow.
Man, you got a beautiful personality."
He said, "Man, God is just telling me
to make this presentation to you."
And I kinda took it as a joke, and man, not me.
God, you can't use me, certainly not me.
But anyway, make a long story short,
his church, the First Baptist Church
which was a very influential church
in the Southern Baptist Convention.
They came to the conclusion,
we need to get this guy in Madisonville
because the black ministers in Madisonville,
they come in, they preach a 20-minute sermon and they go.
They need some people, they need a person of color
to come in and help other people of color in Madisonville.
And it amazed me that a white man could see that.
He said, "This is what I'm a do."
He said, "I am going to talk to my congregation
and see if we can help that transition."
When he talked to his congregation
and they told me what they could do,
the same day I got an opportunity to move to Madisonville,
I got an opportunity at my job,
working for the ship building company,
they wanted to bring me on
as a direct employee for a nice salary.
So I'm tied between, do I take this money and my career,
or do I go to another venue,
another venture of the ministry?
So I just sold out.
I said, "I'll go to the ministry."
My father was proud.
My mother was proud, because they did not do anything
to help make the decision.
I knew what I had to do.
And it was one of the best moves I ever made in my life
because I was able to impact people, period.
When I was on the city council,
I could have been on the school board
but I was on the city council
but I was able to go there
and help unite a community of 4,000 people.
Black, white, Hispanic.
And that was one of the most rewarding experiences
I ever had.
Interviewer: I wanna hear more about that.
Tell me what the challenges were
and how did you tackle them? -: Wow. Where do I start, man?
When I went to church, I noticed
that no one was bringing a Bible.
And that was because the people had a problem reading.
So what I did is that I became a part
of the adult education program, the GED program,
which gave me a cross reference
of the people in Madisonville, black, white, Hispanic
that had problem with school,
because it was something about that area of Texas
where people deemed it very easy
to walk away from education.
And I often asked God, "Why are you sending me there?"
And He showed it to me.
So what I did is that I became very active
in the adult education program.
I consequently began running it more or less.
And I was able to help educate people
with disregard to color on just how to read.
After that, I was able to help them with a mindset,
not being the victim, going back to that.
What are you doing for yourself?
That, oh, wow.
I had two Hispanic guys.
They were great guys.
Anyway, they both were on the verge of quitting school
and their mother knew my wife.
My wife was a...
She's a graduate of Michigan State
and she was substitute teaching
at the time we had just gotten married.
And these two guys' mother talked to my wife,
said, "My boys' getting the short end of the stick
in MISD, Madisonville Independent School District."
And she said, "We've heard a lot about your husband,
how he can help kids.
You think he could help these, my boys?"
And man, it was, yes.
We formed a relationship.
These guys were extremely intelligent
but was catching the short end of the stick at Madisonville.
Interviewer: How so?
-: Stereotyping.
Nothing more, nothing less.
Not having the opportunity.
Just taking 'em for granted.
Oh, he's just another, I think he said, "Mexican."
And so the man said, well, so we had to change.
When I say we, me and my church
and the people I represent had to change the mindset
of the people all the way around.
The black people, the white people and the Hispanic people.
So consequently, man, these guys graduated.
They're doing good.
They called me when I first moved down.
I've been back in Beaumont for seven years,
because I was up there almost 13 years.
While I was up there 13 years,
I was able to put about maybe about 12 guys
in major colleges playing football.
I'm talking Michigan, Rice, A&M, Kentucky.
And most of these guys didn't have...
There dads wasn't around.
So I became a father to these guys.
Black, Hispanic, they were some tough guys.
They were tough and they just needed to be embraced.
So while I was there, the system saw what I was doing
and they embraced me, man.
They just, I can't explain it to you.
The judge one day was scolding this kid
and the mayor was scolding this kid.
He's a black kid. He was tough.
And I happened to come into the city hall that day.
And they had heard about me.
And the judge asked if was there something I could do
to help this kid?
I said, "Give him to me."
And I was able to help him by just being there for him,
teaching him things.
See, society has a way of throwing you away
if you don't meet a mold.
And a lot of these guys just didn't fit the mold.
Their daddies were in jail.
Either on their way to jail, just getting out of jail.
It was sad.
It was sad all the way around.
Yeah, so I stayed there 13 years.
I pastored a church.
The First Baptist Church made my church a mission church,
which was a crossover ministry.
I was able to bring the Christian community together.
Mormon, Church of Christ, Pentecostal, Baptist, Methodist.
We would get together every quarter
and to fellowship together.
Our focus was what unites us, not all the differences.
And we came to conclusion, what unites nice is more valuable
than what divides us.
It was an amazing thing.
Interviewer: So, what is that?
What is that? What is it that unites people?
We've talked a lot about the divides people and what...
-: Yeah. Yeah.
But what unites 'em.
To understand and talk to 'em, to get to know them.
When those people got to know me and I got to know them,
I'm like, "Oh man, they all right."
So, what unites us is our ability
to get to know one another.
Oh, you said, "Oh man, that's too simple."
No, it's not.
When you get to know people,
then you can understand how they're feeling.
You can understand their hurt.
You can celebrate their happiness.
You know what they're going through?
Those people looked at me and said,
"Oh, he think he some just because he tall, he educated."
They had stereotyped me.
And I'm like, "Man..."
They just didn't know.
And when they got to know me...
I had a motto and this is something else
when you get to know people.
You can tell me anything but a lie.
If I want to...
What can unites us?
Don't tell me a lie and I won't tell you one.
Just be truthful with me.
So getting to know people, don't lie to one another
and then respect one another.
Interviewer: And so, when did you move
back here to Beaumont?
-: 2008.
Interviewer: What do you think have been
the biggest changes that this town has seen
since you were first here?
-: Wow. Nothing.
Which is why I'm here.
It's a divine calling.
I have forgotten how divided my city was.
I left in '69, came back in 2008.
My father passed in 2003.
He was a powerful man of God.
He was a civil rights individual.
And my desire was to carry out his legacy.
For some reason though,
that just resonated in my spirit.
It was so funny.
This church is a historical church.
My brother and I that was a minister
came home one weekend and he said,
"Man, let's ride around."
'cause every time we'd come home, we would reminisce.
We came by this particular church.
He said, "Oh man, you remember,
dad used to preach at this church and (mumbles),
because the guy that pastored,
he was a good friend of my dad.
So my brother told me this.
He said, "This church is tailor made
for you to be their leader."
I don't know why he would tell me this.
So we rode back here.
So we come to the campus.
They had the men outside cutting the grass.
They had a senior citizens program
that gave lunches to the senior citizens.
They had a daycare function
and daycare center next door.
So my brother and I came through here
and we saw the secretary,
and we asked, "Can we just look around?"
She said, "All right, you are Reverend High's sons."
So my brother asked her, did they have a pastor?
He knew that they didn't.
She said, "Oh no."
And she said, "No, we don't have a pastor."
So she asked my brother, "Well, where do you live
and where do you..."
He told her.
And she looked at me.
She said, "Where do you live
and where do you pastor?"
I said, "I live in Madisonville, Texas.
It's where I pastor."
And she looked at me, this lady, right next door.
She said, "Are you kidding me?"
She said, "My daughter got stranded
in Madisonville yesterday,
and I'm going to have her car towed
from Madisonville, Texas to Beaumont, Texas.
And I told the lady, "Ma'am, don't do that.
I'll help you."
Chico, one of my good friends, excellent mechanic,
took care of this lady's car for a flat $100 bill.
And this lady just cried and cried.
She said this, "Would you consider putting in your resume
as the pastor of our church?"
And I told her, "Yeah, if you don't tell anyone
that this happened.
Just don't tell anyone that I helped your daughter.
You don't have to do that.
I'm doing this because it's just a labor of love."
They had a hurricane down here.
And so they went about three or four months.
The individuals that were over the pulpit committee
saw my resume, and they said, "This is our pastor."
Sure enough, that's how it came to pass.
And so when I came here,
I saw people I went to school with.
I saw teachers and there was this divine
the order by God to come here.
And so this lady eventually told the pulpit committee,
"You remember when my daughter got stranded?
You remember I told you how a preacher helped her?
This is the guy that helped us."
And the reason I'm telling you the story
is because you can understand that I'm not here by accident.
So I've been back for seven years going on eight years.
And what my passion is is to unite my community,
because they have had some problems
with their school district and that type thing.
And so this is what God has shown me,
to energize volunteers to help children
with disregard to color.
So what we did is that we adopted a school.
I'm a part of a volunteer program
and that sought me out to help people.
And so, as a result of that, I have been able to cross over
in the Christian community
with people to energize people, to get involved.
When I first got here, the second year,
because I'm outside the box
this church established a Martin Luther King Jr. Parade.
It's a big ordeal.
They established the Martin Luther King Day function
which was held at this church.
Well, the second year I was, I was led to ask
Dr. James Fuller from the Calder Baptist Church to speak.
He said, "Jerry, now, you know I'm white?"
I said, "Yeah."
I had him speak because our people need to know
what Dr. Martin Luther King did for them,
just not people of color.
And he was honored and it was just so fantastic.
So he brought his congregation.
Church was full.
You had the black people on the right side,
the white people, the left side.
And the Hispanic, of course,
they lean toward the left side.
I'm outside the box.
We began singing, "If I be lifted up,
I'll draw all men."
I made everybody get up and meet in the middle
and start fellowshipping.
And then everybody was able to mingle in.
So my purpose, I think my personal purpose
is to help unify the best I can.
Interviewer: That seems like
it's still a challenge today.
-: Man, that's an understatement. Yes.
But some good things are happening.
Some good things are happening.
I had lunch with a guy the other day,
he's named Rick White.
And I mean, just a great guy.
Has the same way of thinking that I have.
So I ask him about this particular school.
And I said, "Have you ever heard of this school
in Waxahachie, Texas called Southwestern Assemblies of God?"
He started laughing.
He said, "Yeah, that's where I got my undergraduate degree
and I'm going to the seminary there now."
I said, "Well, my son had got a football scholarship there.
He'll be going there in the fall."
And we just couldn't believe that.
So he sent me a book to give to my son
on how to take the next path.
So a lot is going on.
It helped in bringin' those barriers down.
I'm not the greatest person in the world
but I do have sense enough to know
that if I'm not a part of the solution,
I might be a part of the problem.
And I think that great things happen
when you do small things consistently.
It ain't the big things.
It's the little things, the little bitty things.
And so that's kinda what I'm about.
And yeah, I'm boring you all to death, man.
(laughs)
Come on.
Interviewer: I am gonna wrap up in just a little bit.
I've had you here for a while now,
but I did wanna ask you-
-: No, you good, you good. -: A couple of questions
kind of going back in time.
One thing you mentioned was that when segregation went away,
so did the father.
-: Wow.
Interviewer: And correct me if I'm misconstruing
what you said, but I think that's what you said.
Can you tell me what you meant by that?
-: Go back to this other statement I said.
Because we had more freedoms
and we had the freedom to fail.
We all have choices.
We just cannot control the consequence.
And a lot of men of color, they had the choice
not to be responsible and they made their choice.
So they raised children with no values.
Are you with me?
Are you connecting with?
So segregation, that was unheard of.
Very seldom did you see a household
and the man was not there.
But now, I think statistically speaking,
the average home does not have a father, over 50%.
If you don't believe me, do a survey.
You can almost do it in this community.
Anybody walking, ask, where is their father?
Or where was your father?
Integration took that away
because we had the opportunities to do more.
And when we took advantage of those opportunities,
we fumbled the ball on the one-yard line.
We were not good stewards of that opportunity.
Interviewer: Do you think there were other issues
there too though?
The way that the structures,
the way desegregation was handled,
the way the process of desegregation was act out,
you think there were other issues
that impacted the community?
Or they were, I don't wanna say forced,
but maybe more an actual systems thing?
-: Well, well, you have just defined an excuse though.
That's more of an excuse than a symptom,
because a lot of people have used that excuse
back to that victim, victor thing.
Why do you have to always be the victim?
I have a problem with these kids today.
I mean, you can go to any school you want to,
you can do anything you wanna do.
You can apply, they have all these scholarships.
You have every opportunity in the world
but then you get offended
if I tell you to pull your pants up.
You see what I'm saying?
So no, that's not systematic. That's personal.
Interviewer: What about issues with high unemployment?
Issues with any other things
that would affect black communities?
You mentioned prisons earlier, police brutality,
surveillance of black communities.
Those things come into it.
What do you think about those?
-: I think that's terrible.
The system has profiled us as a people.
As a matter of fact, my son is 17 years old.
He's six foot six.
I don't let him wear a hoodie and go to the mall.
I have to encourage him.
Look, man, you got to keep your ID on you.
And those are systematic things.
Yeah, I think men of color, black or brown
are profiled, no doubt about it.
There is no doubt about it.
But you have to sell or present yourself in a different way.
And when you become a victim of that,
just shake it off and keep going.
It's not gon' be like that every time or all the time.
So quit using that as an excuse.
I have a problem seeing our boys walking around here
with their reaches down and that.
Why don't we do that?
The system is designed for men of color to fail.
Why don't you dispel that myth?
Interviewer: Are you familiar with Henry Louis Gates?
-: Who? -: Henry Louis Gates?
-: Oh yes! Oh yes!
Interviewer: Did you about him getting profiled
by police in his neighborhood? -: Yes, I did.
Interviewer: He's very successful,
a renowned scholar and was in his own neighborhood
and put in handcuffs there as if he didn't belong there.
So what do you think about that
in context of what you just said?
-: I don't wanna make my blood pressure go up,
but that was terrible.
I just thought that was horrific.
That should have been a reality check
to the United States of America.
The land of the free and the home of the brave.
That was shameful.
It was wrong.
But that behavior, it gets a slap on the hand.
And that's why it's done,
because it's not dealt with in terms of punishment.
Look at the swimmer from Stanford
that got, what, six months, three months?
For taking advantage of this young...
If you think that he would have been black,
what would he have gotten?
Interviewer: Not six months.
-: Got six years at least.
So it goes on and on.
That really bothers me.
Then what can we do about it?
I don't know.
What I tell my people to do, now back to...
Our people don't vote.
People of color don't vote.
I remember poll tax when I was nine years old
and that people had to pay.
I remember, they used to give them a test
with the marbles.
How many marbles is in this...
Before you can vote.
And our people take it for granted and don't vote.
This county is mostly black
and the bus that we drivin' is going backwards.
Interviewer: So going back to some of the history,
I was really intrigued by what you said about your dad
and his role in Orange County-
-: In Orange, Texas.
Interviewer: And just wondering, what do you know,
what can you tell us about his story
as a civil rights activist?
What did he do?
-: So, Orange prepared for Beaumont.
I'll give you a case in point.
The church he pastored is downtown Beaumont.
And it was, this was a big ordeal, man.
In 1962, we was the first black church to be on TV.
Oh my goodness.
That was...
Oh my goodness.
Ebenezer Baptist Church, which is the same name
of Martin Luther King's church,
is on TV in Beaumont, Texas.
Representing and being a part
of the civil rights movement then
meant to present an uncompromising gospel.
The gospel of doing what's right.
So my father stood up for that at all cost.
He didn't have to be, have a big platform to do it.
He did it the way it was.
Like when he got my friend and I our first job.
He just told the man who he was.
He stood proudly in front of this white man in 1965
and didn't get lynched for going to get his son a job.
As a matter of fact, he earned the respect of the people.
So other than that, I can't tell you anymore
than earning that respect.
Interviewer: Did he have contact
with white city leaders or any role
in kind of talking about the status of the black community?
-: Yes, but the climate of the time
limited the effect of the conversation.
It was more rhetoric than anything.
Oh, I hear you.
However, Beaumont was not as bad
as a lot of other places though.
And maybe because a lot of the people here
understood their place,
maybe you didn't have as many radical individuals
that should have been, but you had people
that stood for something, that were people of character.
Black, white, and really stood for something.
Interviewer: Do you have a memory,
any memories of demonstrations happening here in Beaumont?
-: No.
Oh, well, yes, I do.
Maybe one at, was it Walgreens or Kresge downtown?
It probably was around '64, '65,
and a couple of the kids went down to get served.
They didn't get served, but they were obedient and left
when the policeman asked them to leave.
So it wasn't anything violent.
And that's probably why it don't stand out,
which is sad to say.
It's sad to say.
Interviewer: While we're kind of on the topic
of family again, something you said earlier,
you said your sister talked to you
about how you would treat women.
Tell me about that.
What was that conversation like?
What did she teach you?
-: Wow, man, it was enlightening.
She said, "Jer, a girl likes a guy that's respectful.
A girl likes a guy that carries himself a certain way.
A girl don't want a big, dumb jock."
(laughs) She's laughing.
But it's that type thing.
And it was basic, but it stayed with me.
She said, "A girl wants a guy,
she want a guy that's clean and nice and neat,
just respectful to women."
I don't know why she would tell me that.
Her name was Sherry, mine is Jerry.
A lot of folks thought we were twins,
but we had the same personality.
We used to tease one another.
I said, "Girl, you a male version of me."
But anyway, so that type thing.
And so, she encouraged me to do better
in terms of school and how I present myself,
and not take women for granted.
Interviewer: Did you have any role models
other than your sister?
Maybe if your mom was one of them,
-: Oh yeah. -: Who were women.
You had them two? -: Oh yeah.
Oh man, where do you want me to start?
My mother was a role model because she was a housewife.
Cooked breakfast every day, three square meals a day.
Man, we never went hungry.
She took care of not only us as children,
but took care of my father as a minister's wife.
I remember her doing that.
I just eulogize my high school English teacher.
Taught me how to critique a poem,
taught me how to write a resume.
Taught me how to write a report.
Just taught me some very good things about English.
She was a role model for me, my English teacher,
Mrs. Ruthie Clay.
My grandmother.
My grandmother's name, you ready to laugh?
My grandmother's name, my mother's mother
was named Manina Fullalove.
M-A-N-I-N-A, F-U-L-L-A-L-O-V-E.
And my mother's name being Fullalove married a High.
So a High married a Fullalove,
and that was a joke within itself.
And in Harris County, my grandmother
had a third grade education
but she was so proficient in reading and keeping her books.
She took her tax records down to the County scene
and they were checking them books
according to what she had put down.
So she was one of my role models as well.
Woman was.
Interviewer: I have one, it's kind of broad question.
What have you learned in your time as a pastor,
as a civic leader that you wanna pass on
to your children or your community?
What are the lessons?
-: Wow.
Be versatile
Versatility, fair and unbiased.
Respectful, loving as well as being informed.
Again, I have a son.
I'm 65 with a 17-year-old son.
And I'm so proud of him
because he has learned from me through observation.
As you know, that's how most people learn.
Because the way that I am,
is I learned from watching my father.
So that's what I would like to pass on
to everyone I come in contact with.
Know what's going on around you.
Interviewer: Can I ask you one more question?
-: Yes, sir?
Interviewer: You mentioned getting involved
with the NAACP while you were in college,
and I saw there's some signs out here in the lobby.
So, can you tell us any more about the NAACP
here in Beaumont?
-: Yeah, when you go out, you'll see the article on...
I was just in the paper about the NAACP here in Beaumont.
I am an active member.
I don't hold a position because I didn't want one.
However, the president has really confided in me
in terms of what the NAACP stand for
and what we should be doing now.
Well, what we should be doing now
is prepare for war in the time of peace.
And so that's what we're doing.
That's what I'm challenging the NAACP to do now.
And we do that by, first of all,
we gotta get some young blood in the NAACP.
One of my associate ministers is a 23-year-old senior
at Lamar University.
And he has taken over the NAACP Awards banquet
that we will have on June the 17th,
and he has formulated the whole program.
And not anybody on that program will be over 35 years old.
So the NAACP have to think young
because we have gotten too old, with old ideas,
and we have to bring a generation on behind us,
and so that's what we're doing.
My challenge then to the NAACP
and through the community was getting PREs,
getting people involved with our school system,
because we have too many kids
that are falling through the cracks
in terms of standardized testing,
to be a mentor or to be a reader,
just to be available for our children.
And so that's where I'm standing
through the NAACP and doing that.
Interviewer: That's really interesting.
We actually met with the president yesterday-
-: Oh, Paul Jones?
Interviewer: They're gonna be there at the banquet.
-: Is that right?
Oh, okay. Okay.
Interviewer: But we're also historians.
So I wonder if you could tell me anything
about, was it around in your dad's day?
Do you know anything about the history of the local NAACP?
-: Oh yeah, man, I have a good book
that I loaned to my minister.
I do, I remember.
Yes, it was founded by white people.
Two of the founders were white.
And the biggest, I guess the thing that challenged,
and the question was,
why is it still CP, the colored people?
Because it was for people of color regardless.
I go back to the NAACP to the mid to late '50s
in terms of their effectiveness.
They were the voice and still is of the voice
for people that doesn't have one or did not have one.
They were that voice.
And I remember them always being that voice.
As a matter of fact, when that was injustices,
you mentioned the NAACP even around here.
As a matter of fact, Beaumont had one
of the largest chapters at one time
and they stood for something.
Interviewer: Do you remember
any of the leaders of the branch back in those days
when you were a kid or growing up?
-: No.
You talking about nationwide or local?
Interviewer: Local.
-: My memory is good, but it's not that good right now.
Interviewer: No worries.
-: I'm running on fumes now,
so if you smell anything burning,
it could be my brain.
No, not really.
I cannot remember anything any names per se.
Interviewer: They didn't have a youth council
that you a part of, did they?
-: No.
No, they developed one when I left here at Beaumont.
As matter of fact, my nieces and nephews were part of...
They had a strong youth group at the NAACP here,
here at Beaumont.
And my brother-in-law was extremely active, but I was gone.
I was away from it.
Interviewer: Is there anything else, Pastor,
that you'd like to tell us?
Like the past, the history of the city or the town?
-: No.
We have covered quite a bit now.
It seems like I'm rambling. -: Thank you very much
for your time.
-: Any questions?
Interviewer: Thank you, Pastor.
I appreciate your time.
-: Thank you all so much.