Danielle: My name is Danielle Grevious.
I am with Texas Christian University,
Civil Rights in Black and Brown Oral History Project.
It is June 8th, 10:30 AM.
We are interviewing Mr. Harold Joseph.
And we are also with Eladio Bobadilla
and Max (indistinct)
So Mr. Joseph, just to begin, can you tell us
about when and where you were born?
Tell us a little bit about your neighborhood.
Just generally like your background?
-: Okay.
I was born in port Arthur, Texas,
October 6th, 1944.
And what I can remember,
I went to Lamar elementary school.
Which was not but maybe five blocks
from where I lived at eight 20 West 18th street.
My parents I'm a,
I'm an only child.
Some people say spoiled, but I'm not.
Danielle: Okay.
What did your parents do?
-: My dad worked at Texaco refinery
and my mother was a domestic service lady.
She basically stayed at home.
Danielle: So, she took care of home,
but she also do domestic work in the home
or outside of the home.
-: Well she worked for,
I would assume she worked
for as a domestic person to clean homes
and do washing
for the people that stayed on the East side.
Danielle: And who lived on the East side?
-: Preferably white Americans and Anglo.
They had a bus system, she would catch the bus.
Danielle: So Lamar elementary.
Was that a segregated school?
-: No, not at the time, no.
Danielle: Okay.
Can you tell us more about, like your education?
-: Yeah. Well, I went to Lincoln high school.
Class of 1962, the best.
A matter of fact, Erin Brown
who played for the Kansas city chief,
is the first Superbowl black bearer
of the super bowl ring.
That's my classmate.
Unfortunately he got killed some years back.
I think he was, lived in the Woodlands area
and they was having problems with his vehicle
and he decided he was going to walk back for help.
And I think somehow a car
or a truck hit him accidentally, killed him.
Danielle: Okay.
I'm sorry to hear that.
So your schooling, you said you weren't
in segregated schools at all?
-: No, I was school was wasn't integrated
in the late fifties and sixties, early sixties.
Danielle: So can you tell us
a little bit more about that?
How was that being there for the integration process?
How, how was that?
From what you remember.
-: Well, I went to all black school.
It was no integration whatsoever.
And we went downtown, pulled out there.
We had to go to the counter at the register,
we couldn't sit there, we just had to buy
what we were there to buy and he'd give it
to us more like a backdoor style.
Everything that you've done
for as a going downtown, to eat wasn't allowed,
unless you just bought it and you got it to go.
Same as some of the restaurants.
I remember my parents going
to a restaurant in Sabine called 'Green Juice'.
We'd come from the beach
and my mother felt like eating stuffed crabs,
where they would get the stuffed crabs.
But you had to go to the back door and get them.
Danielle: And so your school was segregated,
it was all black.
Were there other schools in the area?
Maybe like a white school
or a Mexican-American school or-
-: Thomas Jefferson.
Danielle: Okay.
Was that a white school?
-: Yes.
Danielle: Okay.
And did you notice any differences between yours,
your school and Jefferson? -: Well,
we would like to, athletically wise,
we would like to challenge and play with them.
Or play against them, but they wouldn't let it happen.
Not at that particular time,
not to tell the integration came.
Danielle: And when did they
actually allow you to play sports against them?
-: Me, myself, I never did.
Other than playing out Sandlot opponents
on Saturday or Sunday, we'd have
you know integrated match with the Mexicans
and whoever else wants to play
but that was just on our own.
Danielle: So you were,
you did have other people in your community
who you, so you were involved with Mexican American people
on the community? -: Yes.
Danielle: And other white students as well, or
-: Not as much.
My children probably was more
than I was because, I mean, I'm 71 years old.
Like I said, my kids were more integrated than I was .
Danielle: Okay.
So can you tell us about that at all?
Or what were your, some of your experiences
with people who you did think or were around with
or I'm sorry were around from other communities,
maybe Mexican American kids at the time?
-: Oh, well, I had a lot
of them knew a lot of Mexican friends and they lived
in on the West side and matter of fact, I can name one.
It was the Ramirez family.
They were very, very good people, far as I'm concerned.
Because every time we play Sandlot football
on their properties, the mother made some type
of meal and they had a table as long as a wood table,
as long as it's 12, 14 foot long.
And we had to go sit down there and eat before we left.
So in the matter of fact,
there's one that's retired right now.
We see each other every so often and we always
have that camaraderie that love for each other.
So it's all good.
Then at the other hand, too, you know, sometimes
they would tell you, 'well, you can't cross the tracks.'
We'd cross them anyway.
So, you know, stuff of that nature.
Danielle: And what was on the other side of those tracks?
-: Ice cream, zip freeze, ice cream,
little places to go that we didn't have on the West side.
Danielle: So was it the whiter part of town?
-: Supposedly, but we had to challenge.
We'd go anyway.
Sometime we'd have a fight though, but hey?
That's what it was.
Danielle: Do you want to share some
of those experiences challenging some of those things?
-: Well, not really
because my dad always told me 'trouble is easy to get
in and hard as hell to get out'.
So I kind of basically done what my dad told me
and just wouldn't go and do a lot
of things that maybe some other boys
or some other kids done.
I liked to play baseball, football
and do basketball and just energetic.
Stay out of trouble.
Danielle: Okay.
So what were some things,
so you say you're very active in sports.
Were you involved in anything else?
Did you go to college in the area?
And if so like or what other,
what organizations were you part of?
Were you ever part of a union as a part of your work?
-: Yeah, I went to college, didn't graduate
but I went to college, some-
Danielle: Where was that?
-: Lamar university.
Danielle: In what years?
-: It was in the, I see.
I married out of high school in 1962.
So I would think after my wife and I,
between 65 and 66, 67.
Danielle: Do you want to share some of those experiences?
-: Well, I took a welding course
and I did pretty good in it.
And my main objective was to get a job,
a good paying job.
So I've had, I worked
for drainage district seven
from 1966 to 68 eight, maybe.
(phone ringing)
Excuse me.
Hello.