Good evening. Welcome to our third presentation
of our JFK 60 series. It's presented by the
Osher Lifelong Learning Institute at the
University of North Texas and JFK expert Mr.
Dory Wiley. Before we get started I'd like to
just remind you of a couple of
housekeeping things. If you could please
remember to silence your phones. We had
one go off last time and we are recording these
to be preserved in the
UNT's portal to Texas history. I'm glaring
because I remember whose it was.
And we live in the same house. I'd also like to
let you know that we will have
busters coming around to take your plate so no
need to get up and I would like to go ahead and
turn it over to Dory Wiley who is going to
introduce our amazing presenter tonight enjoy
the evening thank you very much how's everyone
doing all right quick review uh this is night
number three how many of you were on night
number one how many of you were at night number
two wow
how many of you first night ah we got a few
great we'll we'll have this recorded and online I'll
show you here in a minute how many of you went
down to uh Dealey Plaza Texas theater okay great
our speaker tonight was in that movie the
oliver stone movie it's going to be very very wonderful
very exciting. I'll introduce him in just a
second. Let's see. Man, I thought every
guy was a clicker expert. I thought it was in
our blood. My clicker doesn't work. I have
to have a woman show me how to click. Look at
that. The minute you touch it, that figures.
that figures so uh just as a reminder uh we did
uh the first two tonight is a sniper training
on Tuesday October 10th which will be next week
uh Bob Tannenbaum who was former deputy
counsel to house Select Committee of
assassinations uh former homicide district
attorney for New York won lots of cases very
opinionated very spirited even at whatever he
is 83 84 years old we're very lucky to have him
he will bring some books if you want some his
books will not be about the JFK Assassination
okay they're about his murder trials and stuff
but he's put out a bunch of books and they're
very good reads and if you like that kind of
stuff bring some money for that uh the next one
after that is a couple of weeks later
on Tuesday October 24th uh this is the one I
mentioned before which will be
uh Judy Baker uh Judith Baker uh is a perhaps
the most interesting testimony out there
says Oswald's girlfriend that she worked on a
cancer bioweapon to kill Castro with Oswald and
ruby and clay shaw met Carlos Marcello David
morales with the CIA all kinds of stuff so what
we're going to do is we're going to in a trial
format almost or testimony format we're going to
swear her in I'm going to ask her a bunch of
questions and I got a trial attorney litigator
friend who's going to cross-examine her then
we'll do redirect and you can ask her some questions
so if her if you find her credible it'll be
interesting to see if you do because we're
going to put her in that format she's she's a
very interesting witness so no one's ever done
that before and I can tell you everyone in the
research community is going to be very interested
to see how this video and event turns out and
then I'll close up on November the 2nd
and do that one what that is a trial you never
heard about which I mentioned to you before
howard Hump Versus Liberty lobby I'll do a
quick review of the garrison trial how it
relates to
that trial what happened in that trial who we
got on record we got this is the first time in history
we got in a trial format under deposition with
direct examination and cross-examination a bunch
of CIA agents including two former directors of
the CIA what was the conclusion of that jury trial
and I will wrap up with some more conclusions
of my own uh with that one and then on the 10th which
is not on this page we will have the last trip
which will be down to the Unc Law school which
which is in the old Dallas Municipal Building
where Oswald was shot and killed,
and they made a museum out of it.
It's a great idea.
The city put up a bunch of money for it.
They made a museum out of it, but you can't go
see it
because it's a working law school.
You can't just walk in and go see it.
You have to have a scheduled appointment to do that.
We still have a few slots open,
and if you want to see it, this is your chance
to go see it
because it's very difficult to go do.
and I think that's it except for this I want to
show you this I told you last
time I was on the board of the UNT library they
have the Texas portal the
portal of the Texas history they have the most
amazing online access of any
library in the state to Texas history and some
of the things they have in
their collection is they have a bunch of giant
JFK photos partnering with the
six-floor museum you can take picture of this
if you want to there's also some
handouts in the lobby you can pick up they have
the Dallas Police Department
collection the partnering with the Dallas
Municipal Archives they have John
F Kennedy Memorial collection from another
group they have the Jack Ruby
trial transcripts which is really interesting
at the UNC Law School one of
professor the Dean actually teaches a class on
the Jack Ruby trial and I got to lecture in
that class
to the law students well which was really
interesting to talk about the Jack Ruby trial
fascinations fascinating study by itself this
is the Jim Mars Collection Jim Jim Mars was one of
the top researchers in the JFK Assassination uh
wrote a book called crossfire some people say
top five top ten minimum uh book on the JFK
assassination himself and all his papers are
there at the library the Charles Reagan papers
and then the judge Sarah Hughes collection if
you remember she's the one appointed by uh LBJ
and she's the one that swore him in on the airplane
so enough of that I want to tell you about
brian because I'm cutting into this time and I don't
want to cheat him or you out of what he has to
say he's been researching the JFK much like myself
He got hooked as a kid.
He's been researching JFK assassinations since 1969,
has interviewed numerous eyewitnesses who were
in Dealey Plaza on November 22nd.
He has also interviewed several members of the
Dallas police and sheriff's office
who were on duty that day, Parkland doctors,
medical personnel,
who also participated in the autopsy at the
Bethesda Medical Center in Maryland.
He holds a master's degree in criminal justice
from Washburn University and taught criminal
justice there for eight years from 1994, nine
years, 1994-2003.
From 78-2001, Mr. Edwards served with
distinction as a uniformed police officer,
thank you for serving, with the Lawrence,
Kansas Police Department.
I wonder if he's a jayhawk fan where he served
as a field training officer firearms instructor
and was the department's senior crime scene
photographer from 82-90 he was assigned to
the counter-assault group and in 1991 was
transferred to the department's elite counter
sniper team which gives him a nice perspective
to talk about what he's going to talk about
at Dealey Plaza his original research on the
zapruder film has been cited in several books
and he is co-author of beyond the fence line
the eyewitness account of Ed Hoffman and the murder
of President Kennedy he's got a new book coming
out that I highly recommend and you'll get a
chance to it hasn't come out yet but he's going
to put up a slide take a picture of it it's called
admitted Assassin the Roscoe White Story next
month it'll tell you about Roscoe White a little
bit uh I did forget to tell you Judith Baker
when she comes and we do the trial on her she
will have
a book and so if you want to hear her full
story is loaded with stuff and I'll bring some money
for that as well so all these people have books
are trying to sell right um in 2019 Mr Edwards
appeared as I told you earlier in this
documentary review JFK Destiny betrayed and
more recently
and the documentary JFK revisited beyond the
looking gasp glass we are so glad that you came
from Lawrence Kansas to speak with our group
today Mr Edwards it's all yours come on out
Wow, there's a lot of people here.
Well, I hope you're going to enjoy this.
I know I will.
I want to tell you where we're going.
and so that you'll be able to follow along with me.
This is, before we jump into it, I have a
little house
cleaning to take care of. This is for the FBI agents
in the room, and you know who you are.
As you know, this is for the FBI guys, as you
know, for 32 years I lived at this address.
I recently moved I don't want to make sure your
files are up to date on me so
I recently moved to this address so that you
know where I'm at and I still have
as you know I still have the two SUVs the Honda
and the Toyota but I've
recently as of August of this year added a new
car to my to my fleet so if you
see this this is what I'm driving
whoops oh and if you can't find me with the
personalized place license plate
you're not looking hard enough so anyway all
right let's get into it
law enforcement experience Dory touched about
it just to briefly but I wanted to
expand on it just a little bit that's me in the
we're on the fire range the
firearms and one of the firearms instructors
and one of the armorers for
the department traffic officer and I was on the
forensics team as the chief
photographer senior photographer for the
forensics crime scene investigation team
And I was also on the counter-assault team.
That's me, the first knucklehead in the door.
This is one of our training exercises. I did
that for almost nine years.
And then I transferred to a counter-sniper team.
We had three teams of two and a sergeant.
I'm using a Winchester, or I'm sorry, a
Remington 700P with a Mark IV 10x40 scope.
We fired 165 grain Hornady gold medal match
full metal jacket bullets every Monday.
Every Monday for seven years or six years I was
on the team, we were out in the grass
at the lodge shooting and our sergeant was a
deviant little guy.
We don't know what we were going to shoot from
the time we got there, but most of the
time it was apples or Tootsie Pops.
So I hate Tootsie Pops, hate them.
cannot stand Tootsie Pop. Anyway, that's that.
Okay. All right. And then in 2018, I was called
as an expert witness for the defense on the Lee
Harvey Oswald versus the state of Texas
at the school, law school in Houston, Texas.
And then there's Frightened Brian on the set
of Oliver Stone's set in Washington D.C. I
don't remember telling him my name, but I think he
figured it out. I was too scared. I mean it's
Oliver Stone for crying out loud. But anyway,
and you saw that at the Texas Theater, so we'll
move on. All right, so Dory's asked me to cover
three quick areas, three areas quickly. The
Manlikar Carcano, the ballistics, and the single
bullet theory if you don't know what any of
this is that's okay I hope I have
explained I will explain it clearly enough and
basic that you'll know what
I'm talking about if you don't make a note and
we'll I'll figure it out at the
end all right so Oswald's Mannlicher Carcano
rifle it's Italian raid 6.5
millimeter by 52 shoots a bullet that's World
War two surplus remember the good
old days when you could pick up your favorite
outdoor magazine and order a
gun through the mail? What happened to those
days? Well, according to the
government, Lee Oswald, using an alias, opened
up this magazine, the February 63
edition of American Rifleman, and saw this
rifle and decided he was going to
buy it through the mail. And as you can see,
the prices have gone down quite a
bit since 63 here's a carbine it's a carbine
brand new notice they don't say
the name of the manufacturer they just say it's
a carbine okay who who made it
you know 1995 with a scope attached and we'll
send it to you so he fills out to
the order form and the order the order blank is
for a 36 model 36 inch model
bottom mounted straps here it's a carbine and
the ordering number that
declines the the sporting goods store assessed
was C2t 750 so when you filled
out the M the the blank the in the ordering
blank that's what you wrote
down notice that it says for an extr$57.50 you
could get a clip, the magazine, clip is not the
right word, magazine, and a box of 108 bullets.
Well, Oswald didn't order those. He didn't
order the rifle, he only ordered the rifle,
not the bullets or the clip. Well, that was a
heck of a bargain. You should have ordered that too.
All right, so in the National Archives is that
rifle, but it's 40 inches long. When he placed
the order in February, they ran out of the
36-inch model and shipped him the 40-inch
model. Same gun, but it's a different length.
It holds the clip. It's called an in-block.
For those of you who are familiar with
firearms, you load all six bullets and you push
it down
into the top of the firing chamber, and when
you load the last round, the clip falls out.
says hey you're out okay so there's the this is
my rifle I've got one just like
it the clip with the clip loaded fully loaded
to six rounds we push it into the
top and when you when you load the last round
the clip will fall out of the
bottom how many of you seen the movie private
saving Private Ryan when they're
firing on Omaha Beach and they're shooting
their M1 Garand's and little
clip goes ding. Well this one goes the other
way. It goes down. So there's the
postal. Okay I gotta figure out which one was
the pointer. The postal, the coupon in
the magazine was for this. He filled it out.
He's asking for the rifle and
nothing else. No extra money for the rifle,
just for the rifle and not for the
clip and not for the bullets so there's the
there's the money order the U.s postal money order
that he applied for and got it paid cash for it
and postmarked March 12 63. so they're going to
clients when they the sporting goods store that
he sends this sends this thing to they're going
to send the ship they're going to ship the gun
to the post office box it won't fit in the post
office box so they put a letter or notice and
said hey you've got a package that you need to
to come to the front counter. Nobody at the
postal office interviewed by the FBI remembers
anybody coming to their front counter and said
I have a rifle I need to get picked up.
How did Oswald get the rifle? I'm still working
on that. I don't know. I have no idea. And
there's the letter that was sent. No clip or
bullets were ordered. Keep that in your
head. No clip, no bullets. There's the clip.
You have to have the clip in order
to fire the weapon rapidly. If not, then you
have to fire the gun, eject the shell,
take the new bullet, put it in the chamber,
lock the bolt down, find your
target, and shoot. That's not the way you
rapidly fire a weapon. You would never be
able to fire more than two rounds in ten
seconds. They come in a box of 50. So if
Oswald shot the president, I'm saying if, and
he fired three rounds and one round
was live in the gun when they pulled it, they
found the rifle,
they ejected a live round, that's four. What
happened to the other 46 bullets?
Don't know
The FBI says they went to every gun store in
the Fort Worth Dallas area
And they couldn't find anybody that sells 6.5
millimeter and liquor Carcano bullets
Where did he get them? I don't know that's
another thing. I'm working
So when they find the rifle
This is captain this is a
This is Carl Day of the Dallas Police
Department Crime Scene Unit.
They find the rifle after about an hour of
looking through the depository 6th floor area.
They find the rifle, they pick it up, and their
mistake was that they had a photographer
there taking pictures.
So now we have a picture of the rifle, and
according to deputies that I've talked to,
nobody knew what kind of gun it was.
Well, doesn't it normally be stamped on the
barrel somewhere and, you know, made in the U.S.A
. or wherever?
Well, according to these two deputies, when the
rifle was found, Seymour Weitzman, this rifle
was a 7.65 Mauser.
That's different than an Italian carbine,
totally different, and it's a different
caliber, 7.65 versus 6.5, two different sizes.
uh deputy Boone says the rifle appeared to be a
7.65 mauser we got two people saying it's a 7.65
mauser how did it end up to be a 6.5 Mount
italian rifle another part of I don't know how
to figure
that one out Roger Craig Deputy Weisman walked
up and said it looked like a mauser I was standing
next to him and we weren't any more than six to
eight inches from the rifle and they're stamped
on the right on the stamp right on the barrel
of the rifle with 7.65 bowser sounds like a
mauser to
me case closed that's not the rifle it's in the
archives I've seen it I've been there I've taken
pictures of it it's a 6.5 millimeter man like a
carcano a carbine this is not the same rifle
oh I
prog myself up sometimes
they find this rifle
rather than process
it and you know
search the scene anymore
freeze the location nobody touch it
let's take a look at it
Lieutenant Day leaves
the building with the rifle
walking it down the street
and goes to the sheriff's office
shows the sheriff
look what we found
aren't you guys great
get out of my office
then he has an officer
a deputy take him to the police station
where he processes
looking for fingerprints and all that
but that's not the way you handle evidence
just walk down the street
What's interesting in this picture is, it
appears to be the clip right there.
The clip is never entered into evidence.
There is no evidentiary record of a clip being
entered into the Dallas Police evidence.
Well, where did it come from?
I don't know.
We just found it.
No, it had to be on the ground somewhere.
Yes, Ma'am?
It is.
Remember the rifle that he got was a different rifle?
The one he got was a side mount 40-inch.
Same rifle.
So, good observation.
Good detective work there.
So here is, this picture is in the Dallas
Police Crime Lab.
They take a picture of it.
You can tell the detail is, you know, really great.
Get close to the thing and take a picture of it.
And Day, he's working with this thing.
I have to tell you, when he left the
depository, it was like 1.20.
At 6:00, he's still working on it.
And the chief of police tells him to bring the
rifle down to the third floor
and show it to the media.
I would say, I'm sorry, Chief, but I haven't
finished my work yet.
He never went back to the book depository until
7:30 at night.
Who knows what they're doing over there?
According to Lieutenant Day's testimony to the
Warren Commission,
he lifted a partial print off the metal guard
underneath the trigger.
A partial print.
Well, who did it match to?
Well, it wasn't good enough to match.
Okay, there's a reasonable doubt.
He takes it up to the third floor, or fourth
floor, and shows the media.
Here's the rifle.
In the audio on the NBC coverage of the assassination,
you can hear somebody in the crowd say,
what kind of rifle is it?
And Day, he takes it down, he goes,
I believe it's a Mauser.
You don't even know what it is yet?
How do you not know?
you've had it for five hours you don't know
what it what it's made of so there
it is it's in the hallway everybody's taking a
picture of it oh god when they
filled out when they filled out their inventory
to release to the FBI they
wrote Italian made six point five serial number
blah blah blah who made the damn
thing we don't know because they never checked
well guys come on it's either a
mouths or it isn't if it's not who made it I
don't know what I don't knows in
this story so in the snipers nest I I'm sorry I
call it the Patsy window because
I don't believe Oswald was there I believe he
was on the second floor but
here's here's one version of this of the Patsy
window and there's another version
which one is the real one anybody have a guess
I don't know you don't alter a
crime scene while you're taking the pictures
you just don't do that you
don't touch anything until you take a picture
well we got two versions of the
same thing reasonable doubt how many rifle
casings were found on the floor
I'll tell you again we'll go back to Roger
Craig he says there were we found
three holes that's empty shell casings we found
three holes beneath the window on the sixth floor
they were laying in a three in a row not more
than an inch apart and all pointing in the same
direction how many of you in here are hunters
show me I want to see the hands of the hunters
bolt action right what are the odds of you ever
bolt removing a weapon removing a fired cartridge
and they end up in the same place every time.
Pointing in the same direction an inch apart.
I'd like to have odds on that one.
So either one of two things.
Either he's wrong or this is wrong.
This is the crime scene photo I got from your
university portal.
Thank you very much.
There are three shell casings on the floor.
They're not an inch apart, they're not facing
the same direction.
This is how the photographer, when he showed
up, that's what they look like.
Reasonable doubt.
There's the three shell casings.
It clearly says, you can see it on this one,
WCC, that's Western Cartridge Company, six
point five millimeter that's an identifier well
we know the rifle shot
six point five millimeter but what kind of gun
was it I don't know so here's the
problem the numbers don't line up what that's
three right there's three this is
It is a Dallas police inventory.
It says they took pictures, two negatives and
four prints
each of two 6.5 millimeter, 6.5 bullet holes
and one live round.
What, hold, stop.
Hold on, that's three.
What happened to the other one, I don't know.
Come on.
bullet shells two bullet shells and one live
round and here's an FBI report that
I found you know a couple years ago two
photographs were also made on November
22nd 1963 of two 6.5 millimeter or 6.5
ammunition holes obtained from the
Dallas Police Department crime lab also
Photographed were two lone I live one
live round of 6.5 millimeter ammunition. Well
what happened to the other one? I
know what happened to it. It ended up in a desk
and it never made it to the FBI
until lots later. Oh wait we're gonna have a
three-shot scenario. Oh I got that
bullet in my drawer let me get it for you.
That's not how you do it. I have so
much fun with these people they're just they
just they just crack me up you
would never pass my my law enforcement class on
how to preserve and handle
evidence because you'd be fired here's a
picture in the Dallas police station two
live rounds one live round or two two empty
shell cases one live round that's
oh that's only two so did Oswald only fire two
live round two rounds and have
one in the chamber I don't know but these
numbers don't match one of the
bullet shells one of the shell casings had a
dent in it that could never have
held a bullet and you don't do that by stepping
on it this is brass it's it's
hard it's hard metal I believe this was done
after the fact whoever was firing
that rifle, picked up that
shell casing, stuck it back in the
gun and tried to get it into the chamber
and it dented it.
That's more plausible than
well, that never held a bullet, so
we're down to two bullets.
I don't know what happened to it, but
that doesn't have a bullet in it
and it could never have had a bullet in it
in that condition.
How many
before I go, how many
think they know the answer to this question?
How many rifle casings are in the National Archives?
Three. That's very good.
And one live round. Well that's not what the evidence
suggests. It said there was only two shell
casings and one live round.
Now we've got three empty shell casings and one
live round.
Let's get it together. Come on. Let's all be consistent.
This is an interesting, and I'm trying to find
the document for this, but this is an FBI memo dated
And the important part is, it says after
checking gun and sporting goods, sports stores
in and around Dallas-Fort Worth,
agents were unable to determine where or when
Oswald had purchased 6.5 millimeter ammunition
for the Mannlicher Carcano.
Where did he get it? Did he make it? I don't
think so.
they don't found no reloading equipment in his
in his apartment well how did he
get this ammo again I don't know this is
interesting part of that memo it says
the company manufactured Western cartridge what
Western cartridge company
manufactured four million rounds of this
ammunition for the Marines in 1954 under
this contract yet this ammunition did not fit
and could not be well that's a
typical government thing for you well give me
four million rounds oh wait they
don't fit okay but the lack the last sentence
of this it says this gives this
is the FBI saying this this gives rise to the
obvious speculation that it was a
contract for ammunition placed by the CIA with
Western cartridge company under
a military cover for concealment purposes duh
that's interesting
interesting because the FBI is telling the CIA
you guys didn't cover your
tracks very well and we found out about it but
did that that ever end up in the
Warren Commission documents no no absolutely
not so at some point they
found six bullets after they checked the Dallas
Fort Worth area for every gun
store and every pawn shop and every sporting
goods store couldn't find any
bullets, but yet for the Warren Commission
documents, they found six bullets.
Where did they find them?
I don't know.
Yes, ma'am. Yeah.
No, the gun
that they is holding up is the rifle
that they found in the book depository. Yes, Ma'am.
So they were able to find at least six bullets somewhere.
So then they take the rifle to the U.S. Army's
Infantry Evaluations Branch
at Aberdeen Proving Grounds, and they ask this
guy when he testified to the government,
did you test run to determine the possibility
of scoring hits with this weapon
or on a given target at a given distance under
rapid-fire conditions?
Did you test fire the gun?
Yes, we did. We fired it at stationary targets.
Well, first of all, President Kennedy wasn't a
stationary target.
He was in a moving vehicle and a moving person.
So that right there negates the results of the test.
But then they say from a window ledge of a
tower, which was about 30 feet high.
You've all been to Dealey Plaza. The sixth
floor window is a hell of a lot higher than 30 feet.
It's 78 feet, actually.
So are your results going to be any good? No.
They're going to be totally different.
The angles are different.
Well, that didn't prove a dang thing to me.
So there's the 30-foot tower, and there's the
book depository.
Totally different.
So the government is using their...
They're manipulating the evidence is what
they're doing,
which is not what they're supposed to be doing.
But you're not going to know that because who
knows how many in here honestly read the 26
volumes of the Warren Commission?
Me and another guy, that's it.
They stack up this high and they don't say a
dang thing.
But they know that they fill it up with all
this information.
You're not going to read that.
They counted on that.
so they hid this in there so that you would go
well wow look at look at all the information they
put together it must be good ah no it's no good
it's crap all right where is there other evidence
of bullets in Zealy Plaza yes there were
there's one right down here one bullet strike
this is the
man James Tagg who was an eyewitness who was
standing underneath the Commerce street um
Overpass and a bullet hit about 8 feet in front
of him and sprinkled concrete, well not
sprinkled, it tore a piece of the concrete and
hit him on his right cheek.
And he ducked behind the abutment to get out of
the line of fire.
Something stung me on the right side of my face
just as the limousine got close to the underpass.
That was my interview with Mr. Tague. He's
passed away now. They're all passing away.
Real nice guy. He's just a car salesman and
just happened to show up and got stung by a bullet.
So that's one bullet that Oswald had to have fired.
The other bullet was the fatal headshot. Are
you all with me so far?
That leaves one bullet to do the rest of the
damage on the President and Governor Conley.
We'll get to that in just a second.
Keep that in mind.
He's hit by one bullet.
Conley's hit by another bullet.
President Kennedy's hit by a bullet.
There is Dallas Morning News.
Photographer took that picture and it appeared
on the cover, front page, Dallas Morning News,
the 23rd of November, 1963.
A bullet strike.
hit that curb that's all it could be you
couldn't take a rock and do that
there was nobody standing down there to throw a
rock that's a bullet strike
a mark this is an FBI memo to the from the director
Director Hoover you know my grandmother always
said don't say anything bad about somebody when
they die. Always say something nice. I'm glad
that son of a gun's gone. A mark appearing on the,
this is Hoover. Now this is Hoover writing to
the government. A mark appearing on the curbing
on the
south side of Maine near the triple underpass.
The mark was located and found to be 23 feet,
four inches from the abutment of the triple
underpass. He's acknowledging there's something
there. Well, if you pick up the Dallas paper
the next day, yeah, there's something there.
but they hit this tag wasn't hit by a bullet he
was hit by a goose flying by
or whatever it might have been they never
acknowledged that bullet there's
another bullet strike there's the book
depository there's Elm Street and
there's where you guys were walking all over
this place there's the book
depository there's a sewer inlet right there on
this on the south side of Elm
Street that there was a bullet strike there
right there sidebar when I took
pictures of crime scenes my stuff wasn't in the
picture because that's not the
way I looked that's not what you're supposed to
do anyway so the
photographer's taking a picture of this whole
area but there's I was wanted to
show you that's where the inlet is so let's
look at that right after the
assassination this officer is officer JW Foster
he was stationed on top of the
triple overpass he saw activity over here that
people were milling around
looking at this drainage inlet so he went over
there and he says in his
testimony he saw something in the concrete
there was a fresh burrow in the
concrete and so he's protecting it get back
this is evidence you know we get
back this is buddy Walters of the Sheriff's
Department he comes over and
says something to the effect what you got well
I found this and there's
something in the grass here I haven't had a
chance to touch it but there's
something there well he touches it but he's not
supposed to so while he's
looking at it they're protecting the crime
scene this guy comes into the
picture well they just step back who would have
the authority to tell the
Dallas sheriff or the Dallas police to get the
heck out of the way the FBI
that's right very good we believe this is an
FBI agent we can't identify him
yet but we got some ideas but whatever it was
that he's touching or looked at
an officer Foster saw he picks his fingers in
the ground and whatever it is
is there
it ends up in his pocket.
Evidence is disappearing
before the President even gets to the hospital.
He just walks away. Notice,
did you notice in that last picture,
the previous picture,
He's wearing white socks.
An FBI agent wearing white socks?
I don't think Hoover would go for that.
The reason I point that out is because we believe,
and I've talked to a couple CIA people, covert operatives,
that's the way the covert operatives identified themselves.
White socks.
Something to think about.
So there's the concrete pad, there's the gouge
in it, something made, something was hard
enough of an object and traveling at a high
rate of speed to burrow into the top of that concrete.
A rock? No. A feather? Not. Probably a bullet.
But the problem with that is whoever shot that,
they're not very good.
They would not be on my team. If you miss the
target by that far, you're off the team.
Does anybody have any thoughts of why that shot
was taken?
What was the point of taking a shot so far off?
Evidence, for evidence.
If we can't get a shell casing, we'll get a
bullet fragment.
We'll link it to Oswald's rifle.
Well, Oswald wasn't over there.
He was over here.
That doesn't line up.
lines up with this building. So now we have
another shooter? Maybe? Possibly?
What do you think so far? Is this fun or what?
Yeah, okay, good deal.
All right, the Zapruder film. You've probably
all seen it, maybe you all
haven't, but I'm not going to go into that
because that's a whole, whole
another lecture, but there are key things on
the Zapruder film that you need to
least know about. President Kennedy, this is
frame 230, and I apologize for the
quality, but that's what we have right now.
President Kennedy is clearly reacting
to something that hit him in the throat. If he
was hit in the back, he wouldn't
grab his throat. He would have grabbed where
the immediate flesh hold of pain
is, right here. Conley is not reacting to a
shot. The government's story is that
one bullet fired by Lee Oswald went through the
back of the president came
out his throat and then went on to hit Governor
Conley well Conley's not Conley
is not reacting to a shot yet but Kennedy is so
that bullet didn't go
through both men at the same time you all
follow that okay two different
things happen Kennedy shot Connelly's not
that's one bullet Connelly's now
hit the bullet tore a hole through his back
fractured five inches of his middle
one of his middle ribs and blew the debris into
his lung and it came out his
chest this is this is six frames later the
Zapruder film rolled at 18 frames
per second this is less than a sixth of a
second later a different bullet hit
Conley. There's people firing from all over
this Dealey Plaza into that car.
Bullet fragments, and I'll zip through this
real quick, bullet fragments were
found in the president. This one was found in
his skull. There's more missing
from the more, there's more here than are
missing from the magic bullet, which I'll
talk about in just a second. These are, I had
to get these from the National
archives these are the bullet fragments this
one was found underneath Connelly's
seat in the limousine how the hell did it get
under the seat I don't know but
that's what this says on the placard so I took
a picture of it Thank You Mr.
Archivist click click this is bullshit but I'll
take a picture of it more
fragments this one was found in Governor
Connelly's wrist this one was in the car
this one was in the car this one I can't
remember where this one's at but it it's
it's a big it's about size of your thumbnail
and this one was in I think it
was in the president too but anyway let's move
on so anyway so here's the
here's the magic book this bullet this is this
is commissioned exhibit 399 the
magic bullet this is the one the government
says went through President
Kennedy from his back came out his throat went
through Connolly's back
broke his ribs went through his chest right
here at the midline the right to
the right underneath the nipple line came out
turned left went through his
wrist and into his leg there was more missing
there was more
fragments here than are missing from that
bullet now how did how do they
expect us to believe that that's nuts that's
like fantasy on steroids that is
not in my time on the Lawrence Lawrence Police
Department I fired probably
5,000 rounds I have never ever heard of a
bullet turning and coming through with
no problems no damage remember the damage to
the ribs and the wrists and the
leg it's on nowhere in the history of gunfire
has a bullet ever duplicated
that if you do call me first and I want to see
it but this did not happen there
is a 3d or 4,000 K Scan of that magic bullet
there is anything wrong with it
hell you could probably put it in another shell
casing to fire it again
There's nothing wrong with it.
Come on.
Under no circumstances do I feel that this
bullet could hit a wrist and still not be deformed.
We proved that by experiments.
Chief consultant, wound ballistics.
That tears the whole government story up right there.
That bullet didn't go through those bones.
End of story.
Move on.
Well, if it didn't go through the bones, where
did it come from?
They take the president's body.
don't worry there's no autopsy pictures
I didn't put that in here
but they take the president's body
they steal it from Dallas Texas
and take it to Bethesda
where they're going to do an autopsy
come on
does anybody know who that is
who is that
anybody speak out
who is it
I don't know
when I did autopsy
guy that says since I was the primary
photographer for the crime scene I did
my share of autopsy photos I don't want to ever
see another one but if you have
a guy that has a wound on the back how would
you identify the person in the
photograph any guide any ideas of anything what
how about something real
simple put a mirror in front of the face so
that you have the face in the picture
and the injury wound in the wind in the picture
they didn't do that I have no
idea who this is but I'm gonna assume according
to the government that that's
President Kennedy okay I'll buy that but it's
not but it's interesting that
there's two holes here on the color this is the
colorized version of this same
picture this is a I don't I guess that's a
ruler but where the hell's the numbers
but anyway and what do you what are they
measuring from the
third crease of his neck when he's like this
you measure from the top of the
skull that's stationary and you measure down
and then you measure to the right
or left of the spine they didn't do that so
that's a bigger hole than that I
believe this is just my opinion I believe this
is an exit wound for a shot
that hit him in the front from the front this
is an entry wound from shot that
hit him in the back so he's hit twice once in
the front once in the back just
in the body the Torso part you all follow me so
far there's something wrong
with the pictures because now when we look at a
negative of that the same two
holes are there what I did was I polarized the
same picture and just
turned it into a negative like an x-ray those
two holes are there clearly that's
a lot bigger one of the doctors testified how
gruesome is this he says I
stuck my finger in the bigger wound with my
stuck my finger in
and they didn't go through what kind of
scientific and research is that I went
up to the second digit of my little tiny finger
well what size is your finger
Well, I don't know, it's just your standard
little finger.
That's not scientific.
So, my point is, get to it,
this is what Francis Siebert,
I was fortunate enough to be in the room
when they interviewed Francis Siebert in 1978
in Washington,
and he drew a picture of where the bullet hole was.
He was at the autopsy.
He drew a picture of where the bullet hole was,
one of the bullet holes.
Didn't mention the other one.
I didn't ask him about that.
But he wrote, he said that that's where the
hole was.
So now we have a witness,
we have a photo of that same hole.
And it's the shirt that President Kennedy was wearing.
Right there.
There's the midline of the shirt,
right down the middle, in the back.
A hole in the, do you all understand
that that's below the neck, right?
hits in the middle, it's right here, okay.
So that corresponds with the pictures I just
showed you
and the negative and the Francis Siebert's
drawing, right?
They all pretty much line up.
But wait till you see this.
That's not a very good picture, it's a close up.
So Francis Siebert says in his FBI report,
during the latter stages of the autopsy,
Dr. Humes located an opening which appeared to
be a bullet hole
which is below the shoulders and two inches to
the right of the middle line of the spinal column.
Kind of like right there. Right?
That's about the same thing.
He's describing the same thing.
This is the autopsy body chart that the doctors
filled out when they were doing the autopsy on
President Kennedy.
They filled out, there was a hole there.
7 by 4 millimeters.
Just about a little bit bigger than the 6.5.
So in 64, the FBI was going to recreate the
assassination, because they didn't know what
the hell they were doing.
They were going to try to figure it out. That's
a Lincoln, right? That's the President's
limousine. That's a Lincoln.
If you're going to do a reenactment, would you
not or would you have the same car
that the President was riding in? Right.
Well, guess what?
They didn't do that.
They used the Cadillac, the follow-up car.
That's not the same car.
Your angles are going to be different.
This guy is sitting up higher in the car.
But my point is, notice on the stand-in for
President Kennedy,
there's this white patch on the back.
That's where the hole was, according to the
autopsy picture, the suit, coat, and the
jacket, and Siebert's recollection as a witness.
Have I got time to tell you that quick story? I
got kicked out of the Dearborn, Michigan, Fort
Henry Museum.
I was up there on a conference, a fraud
conference, and I thought, well, I'm going to
go to Dearborn because I want to see the car.
I know it's not the same car because it was
rebuilt under Lyndon Johnson's orders and said,
I don't want to see that car again.
Get it out of my sight.
They drove it back to Dearborn and rebuilt it
from the ground up.
So the president's car that he was riding in
when he was killed does not exist.
but yet at the Henry Ford Museum
there's this beautiful
61 Lincoln stretch limo
and they have placards all over it
the Kennedy car and the pictures
and the Kennedy car
so I'm taking this picture
and this young oriental couple is standing
there and they're taking pictures
and I overhear them going
yeah that's the president's car that he was
killed in
I can't let that go
I said
you know it's interesting you say that
I can't help but overhear.
I didn't mean to overhear, but that's not
really the president's car
because that car was dismantled and sent back
to Hess and Eisenhardt
in Dearborn, Michigan, blah, blah.
I went into a 10-minute dissertation, and
they're going, I didn't know that.
Well, then I turn around, and there's like five
people standing there listening.
And they go, well, how come they're saying that this?
Well, because it's the government version.
I look over the corner and there's a security guard
going you know he's
giving a lecture over here Sir
come here
we'd rather you not give a lecture
I'm not giving a lecture I'm answering a question
a civilian asked
and I spoke up well we'd rather
you not
same thing happened to me at the 6th floor I
can't go back there either
but anyway we move on
So here, I've been kicked out of more places.
There's the spot on the back.
Now, this bullet, according to the government,
hits Kennedy in the back, below the collar,
to the right of the spine,
but somehow ends up going upward in his body
and comes out his throat,
finds Conley sitting over here,
and goes, oh, Hell, another victim.
go there
and go up and down
and flip and a flop
and end up in his leg. No.
Nowhere in the history of gunfire
has a bullet ever been repeated
like that.
There's another picture of it.
So the shirt says
there's a hole in the back.
The body shows
there's a hole in the back.
The reenactment says
there's a hole in the back.
The autopsy body chart
says there's a hole in the back pretty
consistent I'm gonna say there was a
hole in the back but the FBI said you don't
know what you're talking about the
government's real version is this the shot hit
him in the throat in the back
of the throat high in the neck so it could come
out the throat that's not the
way it showed on the evidence well who's right
and who's wrong whose money is on
the FBI's version. Thank you. This is nonsense.
That's not the evidence that's
presented in the clothing, the pictures, the
testimony. So we come up with this.
Oh, you weren't supposed to see this one. Our
inspector, my grandmother said never
say anything bad about somebody when they die.
I'm glad that son of a bitch is gone.
Alright, so here's
what the version looked like. It goes up
and it goes around and flip-de-flops and
ends up in his leg. And it supposedly
ends up on a stretcher in hole
in the hospital.
And a guy picks it up
and goes, well, that might be
important. Puts it in his pocket. Eww.
This is Mr. Spector. I don't call him Senator
because that's the term of endearment, but he's
Mr. Spector.
They have the follow-up car. That's not the
President's car.
And they're in somebody's garage. I don't know.
I have no idea what the hell the transit's for.
But they're trying to figure out how we get
that hole in the back of President Kennedy to
come out his throat and move over to hit Conley.
And he tried all kinds. This must be Jimmy
Buffett's daddy or something. I don't know who
the hell that is.
He must be an FBI on his day off or something.
I don't know what the hell that's going on.
But we're trying to figure this out.
Arlen, it ain't going to line up.
This will line up, but what happened to the throat?
Well, how do you make the bullet go up inside
the body and come out?
You can't.
So they tried and tried and tried.
And you know what?
If it doesn't work, here's what you do.
You just change the facts.
Remember that line in the man who killed the
man who shot Liberty Valance at the
end? Do we print the legend or we print the
facts? Print the legend, man. It's
more, it's more fun to read that. All right,
part two. Any, have I lost anybody?
Okay, part two. This is my, this is my area of
expert, more of an expertise for
me. As you know, I was a sniper for seven, six,
seven years when it all blends
together but if I was going to set this ambush
up here's what I would do I'd
have to have enough people to support logistics
Intel transportation
communications I have to have all these people
in place well Brian if you have
that many people somebody's going to talk yeah
that's why you keep it to a
minimum and only compartmentalize the parts
that you need to have knowing
about what's going on. So there's your crime
scene. You've been there. Ambush. A sudden and
unexpected attack from a concealed position.
Concealed is the key word. Conceal yourself so
that you don't get caught, that you don't get
exposed. Tactical. The use of combat style methods
to obtain a specific goal characterized by
ingenuity, audacity, and precision. That's how
operated when we were on entry team dynamic
entry expose them to so much
stimulus they don't know what to do that's why
we throw a flash Flash Bang
will be break a window on the back of the house
and go in the front door they
don't know what to do they don't wear look and
we're hidden while we're doing
that the four C's of a tactical operation
control of the high ground
command of firepower cover concealment and
communication let's talk about one
of those right now. Sun Tzu, he who occupies
the high ground will have the advantage. Boom.
End of
story. High ground is good. How many of you are
deer hunters? Show me. Deer hunters. You don't do
it from the ground, do you? You're up in a
hide, right? High ground is good. You know why? Deers
don't like to look up, and neither do people.
People don't like to look up. I caught a burglar,
a serial burglar in our in our community one
year and he was hitting every house every business
in the area nobody could figure out how he's
getting away so one night we get a call that
there was an active burglary in progress at
this residence so everybody rushes to the scene oh
we'll get this guy this time so I get there
late and I'm walking around with my flashlight
and I'm
looking up in the trees and everybody else is
looking at the house edwards what are you doing
Looking for, oh hello, hi there, come on down,
nobody looks up.
In this case, exactly the same scenario, nobody
looks up.
High ground, next time you're in Washington D.C.,
go by the White House,
wave to the guys on the top, they love that.
No they don't, they don't.
Friend of mine, his son was on as a SEAL and he
got stationed up on the,
at the White House during George Bush number
two administration he said man this is a great
vantage point he said you don't go up there
unless you're wanting to see something but
these guys these are serious hunters here men
hunters but they could they could fire around
a quarter mile down the road down in Washington
but they're up there command of firepower that's
my team that's the second team there's o'brien
behind the bunker again first one in the door
last one out so you overwhelm your opponent
with overwhelming exposure to
fire one firepower bring more weapons than the
other guy covering concealment
this is cover cover is preventing return fire
concealment on the other hand is
that. Can you see the guy? There's his scope.
There's the barrel. That's a good
hide. That's really good.
Found Clausewitz. Take advantage of concealment
and the element of surprise
to attack the unsuspecting enemy from a
concealed position. Concealed, concealed,
concealed hide hide hide communications secure
encrypted communications so that
nobody is listening on a little shortwave radio
band in Dallas you're
going hey there's something going on in Dealey
Plaza these are encrypted
high-tech military-grade communication systems
and there was such a place at
Fair Park that had that I believe that was the
communication hub for the
assassination of President Kennedy out in Fair
Park underneath the health
building there was a secure communication
system run by the city
County and federal government all right so we
get to the ambush how am I doing
on time? I don't know what that means. Oh, God.
Okay. Project Lancer. Kill only operation. This
is not, we're not going to hurt the guy. We're
going to kill him. And from now on, when I refer
to President Kennedy, it's not, I'm not going
to refer to him as President Kennedy because
it's not out of, not respect, but as a tactical
officer, this is a target. He's the target.
Okay, so when I talk about the target we're
talking about the same guy.
Here's how I thought it would lay out. You have
to have people in place
to be able to do all these things. These are
the shooters.
These guys down here answer to this guy and
they don't know any of these people.
This guy doesn't know this guy. All they know is
what they were supposed to do.
Compartmentalize. Location.
once it was established that President Kennedy
was going to be traveling in a motorcade
and going through Dealey Plaza, the plan starts.
How can we get him?
Where do we have to put our men?
What kind of environment is it?
Are there places that we can hide?
Are there buildings we can get into?
All these logistical things have to come down
and get done quickly.
I believe that this was scoped out the minute
that he announced that he was coming to Dallas.
Come on.
So here's the view.
Targets approaching.
You know the route, right?
It came down Main, turned left on Houston, and
made this 120 degree sweeping illegal turn down here.
And when it did, it exposed itself to the Patsy window.
This is part of the reenactment.
If the target was right below you, why wouldn't
you shoot them?
Hell, you could take a box of books and...
No shots were fired here.
Why not?
they waited until the car
got down the road to a crossfire.
That's the only reason.
Recon of the kill zone.
Where is the target
going to be? What street is he going down?
Well, he's going to go down this street. Okay.
Now we can start measuring. We get our
landmarks. We've got to figure out how far it
is from
my final firing position,
my FFP. How far is that from
where we're going to kill him? He has to be
killed from the time he gets here
before he gets here he has to die in this
stretch of roadway no ifs Ands or
buts he's got to get killed right there so
we're gonna put all of our guns on
that center roadway these guys had to know that
that car was gonna go down the
center of the road they had to know how fast
that car was gonna go they had to
know where he was sitting in the car. All that
information was sent to them in
real time the moment he sat down in Love Field.
They knew exactly where he was
going to be. On time target calculation.
Something I just do in my head automatically.
But it's 465 feet from the curb line at Houston
and Elm to
the triple underpass, 465 feet. At 30 miles an
hour, he's only going to be in the kill zone for
11 seconds. That's too fast. We've got to slow
him down. Who's driving the car? What branch of
service does he work for? The Secret Service.
He hated Kennedy. Did you know that? Bill Greer
hated, hated President Kennedy. Bill Greer is a
player. He's the one driving the car.
He even testified, yeah, we were going about 10
or 11 miles an hour.
What the hell are you going so slow for?
You heard the first shot, you didn't step on
the gas.
Well, I thought it was a backfire.
Well, you weren't well trained at all.
So anyway, at 465 feet at 20 miles an hour,
you're only in the kill zone for 16 seconds.
That's still too fast.
So what we have to do is slow it down to 10-11
to 12 miles an hour.
You'll give 30 seconds.
You hunters, that's a lifetime.
You don't even have to have a scope, you just wait.
Hell, I've got 20 more seconds.
There's my target.
Where do you aim?
Aiming points.
Law enforcement officers are always shot,
taught center of Mass.
Here to here to here to here.
That's where all your vital organs, you get a
high velocity round and there you're done.
Most of the time you're done.
A lot of times you've read in papers where
officers have fired 16, 18 rounds and the guy
is still not down.
One sure way to ensure, one sure way to make
sure the target is killed is what? Headshot.
It's the soft spot.
I had an opportunity to meet Carlos Hathcock at
a sniper school in Denver.
Guy was old, 93 confirmed kills, and the guy
was a superstar, but he said that's the headshot.
Go for the sweet spot, he said.
So if your target is facing away from you, you
put one in the back of his head.
These next four shots, these examples will
sever the brain stem instantly, and you'll
Drop before you could take another breath.
You won't know what hit you.
That's why his eyes were open in the Bethesda autopsy.
His eyes were open when he got killed, and he
never blinked again.
Shoot for the back of the head.
Little occipital protuberance in the back of
your head.
Just put your fist right there.
That's your target.
If the target is in a profile, you put one
right in his ear canal.
Drill right through the brain. Gone.
If the target is on an angle to you, put one
between the ear and the eye,
right in here. And finally, you got one
approaching you from the front. Come on.
Put one right between his eye and his nose.
He'll be dead. Supersonic round traveling at
3,000 feet per second will devastate the head.
It's like an egg. Good segue.
That's a pistol bullet going through an egg.
Imagine what a high-velocity supersonic bullet
will do in a skull.
Massive cratering, massive fragmentation,
blowing out everything.
That's what happened.
They blew his brains out.
The action.
This is frame 313.
This is the fatal headshot.
It hit him right here.
Now, if Lee Oswald was in a position,
supposedly in a position from behind,
How did that bullet get to the front and the
right side of his head?
I don't know.
But it seems like, to me, the shot came from
the right side.
But that's just me.
I'm just speculating.
The moment he sat down in that car at Love Field,
somebody was on the radio going,
okay, target is in the car, right rear seat.
Don't hit the lady in the pink.
Just don't hit her.
No collateral damage.
Can you imagine how you would have felt if you
would have hit Jackie too?
oh live with that the rest of your life no I
don't think I'd want that these
guys were good these were professional military
trained shooters these weren't
somebody get off the street go hey yeah you
went deer hunting last week how'd
you do okay hey you want to go shoot another
thing no these were these were
professional people all along that route there
could have been some operatives
radioing the information to the field commander
saying okay he's at Harwood
Maine now he's still in the back seat no no
delay he's still there still in the
back seat okay good thank you but anybody could
have been an operative and
just put that information out there there's the
target anybody had eyesight
on that car is a potential operative to provide
that information my suspect
are these guys this is the pilot car these were
driven this was
about five to six to eight blocks in front of
the president's car and
everybody in that car is a bad guy cops
lieutenant Colonel Intelligence one guy
from the Department of Agriculture what the
hell is he doing in there he didn't
even carry a gun but I think I think these are
some of the players the other
players could have been somebody in this car.
There's the president's limousine on
Main Street about ready to turn on to Houston.
This car was driven by the Chief
of Police. In the right front seat is Sheriff
Bill Decker. In the back seat are
two Secret Service agents. Their jobs,
according to their testimony, was the guy
in the back seat right was to look between the
two people in front and make
sure the way is clear. The guy in the left
rear, his job was to turn around and
watch behind and make sure everything's okay.
Well, you don't want to protect very much.
Fire control officer has full tactical control
over the action. When that car entered Dealey
Plaza, he was on the radio, standby, scope in,
ready to go. And they would wait for the fire,
the word to fire. Our word to fire was Alice,
because it was never going to be said over the
radio and when I was targeted when I was scoped
on something like a Tootsie Pop
and my sergeant would say in my ear Alice boom
just that quick I don't have
to wait for him go okay go ahead and shoot no
it's Alice boom he didn't get
the word out that's what this guy would do he
would coordinate the three-shot
scenario and make sure everybody was doing what
they're supposed to do so
here's where I would place people I'm sorry
this is where I would place the
fire control guy high elevation unobstructed
view of the entire area
what better to be on top of a seven-story
building than see the entire
area that's a great spot I don't know where the
guy was but he I know he was
up there I would think he'd be up remember what
I said earlier nobody
looks up hell he could have been standing out
there going hey how's it
going. Nobody would ever look at him. Here's
the jail. Dial text. Book depository. Kill zone.
This is from the top of the courthouse.
This is from the post office. A lot of these
pictures I'm showing you have never been seen
by very many people. I got these from the
actual original source post office. You can't
even get
up there anymore but that's what it looked like
I don't think there was anything going on in the
post office I think it was up on the roof was
the spot this is on the top of the old red courthouse
the the clock tower part that's a great command
of the whole area you could be on the radio as
a fire control officer go okay team two you got
a guy coming to you uh evac evac and he'd see the
whole area that's a great spot escape the
opposite way of where the action is
the action the actions here go that way because
everybody's gonna come here
nobody's gonna go that way were there spotters
in the kill zone oh yeah yes
definitely there's two of them right there
there's the president's limousine
there's two spotters. One guy was an umbrella
over his head. It's not raining
for God's sakes. It's 64 degrees. What the hell
is an umbrella doing in the middle
of the kill zone? Well you just don't want to
get that fine complexion messed up I
guess. But these guys are spotters. I believe
this is from a tactical
perspective again. I believe one of these each
one of these guys was was spotting
for a different team. So team one or team two.
They're not working together but
they're standing next to each other there they
are after the shots are fired
everybody's running away these guys sit down on
the curb they're not running
because they know exactly what happened they're
part of the plan we don't know
who these guys are but I think one of these
this guy with the white jacket
that's an antenna he's talking to somebody if
you have one you got to be
talking to somebody else it's got a radio I
believe he's talking to I'm
sorry oh yeah exactly exactly good good call
good call white socks there's an
antenna who's he talking to probably talking to
the guy there's a polarized
version there's the antenna and nobody's gonna
pay attention to him they'll
probably think they're security guys you know
okay no problem there they are
sitting on the curb watching the people go by
looks like he's tucking there's
the antenna looks like he's walking away making
sure that it radio doesn't fall
on the ground to get somebody get in trouble
walking away just walks away we
don't ever see him again this is the last
picture we got of him there's a guy
the bridge he's got a radio in his hand too I
would I suspect that white shirt guy or white
jacket guy is looking that direction and he's
talking to him on the radio
you got people coming to you okay I'll take
care of it
this officer hey good to the Lord Dallas almost
said Lawrence Pd the Dallas Pd climbs up the
fence and sees all these see these people up
here this guy isn't moving he's just standing
talking to somebody on the radio was the kill
zone marked absolutely it was marked
When I say marked, I mean it was laid out prior
to the president showing up
and laid out so that they had a zone of responsibility.
Each team had a zone.
That's like we had a zone.
If you got outside that zone, I don't fire.
My zone is from the lamppost to the stop sign.
If it gets outside of that, I don't shoot.
So this whole zone, the kill zone, was marked.
and where it was marked
this is the reenactment
there's the yellow mark
on the curb
there's one there
and there's one there. You all see that?
They're there. They're still there.
If you go down there today
I'll show you a picture of it
I took last year. There's still remnants
of yellow flaked paint on the curb
and it was fresh that morning
because two witnesses that we've
talked to said that we ran across
the street and I stepped on the curb before I
stepped down to the street and
my shoes picked up that yellow paint who would
have painted the thing in the
morning it was still wet there are the three
marks there's more than three
that's just from this reenactment you can see
that there's at least three
there's one in color right in the kill zone
there's two more here right there
and right there a lot of people overlook this I
didn't I'm thinking how do you
how do you gauge your your timing in your zones
well you gotta have a marker
out there and there was the marker there's two
more there's one there and
one there and there's two more at the end
there's the last one this is frame
309 of the Zapruder film there's one of the
marks right there. Target is still
upright but he's in the zone. He's going to get
whacked in about a sixth of a
second but he's in my zone. This is frame 352
after the fact there's a yellow mark
right there.
No ma'am, because that's where the shooters
were. It was on the top of the
top of the curb and the face of the curb. So
from an elevated position you can see
the top of the curb and from the from another
perspective you can see the face.
So that tells me that there were shooters over
behind the fence or that
on the on the north side or on the north side
and there
There were shooters at a high elevation.
I took that two years ago.
There's the yellow right there.
Now you all drive golf carts, but you all drive.
It still applies.
It's traffic involved.
My mother-in-law lived in a gated community and
I was so jealous that she got to drive
a golf cart every day.
What's a yellow mark on the curb mean?
What does that tell you?
No parking.
Well, Dealey Plaza is, Elm Street is three
lanes of traffic.
There's no parking there ever.
There's never been a parking stall there.
What was the purpose of the marks?
Target acquisition markers.
I'm going to show you now real quick is where I
would put the people.
There's with the high ground.
Remember we talked about high ground is good.
This is where I'd put my guys.
This is the false assassin window.
This is what it looks like from that perspective.
It's 112 yards from that window.
And you don't stick the rifle out the window.
Unless you want to be seen, you're behind the window.
Again, sniper, the patsy window with the
configuration of boxes.
When the FBI did their reenactment, they moved
all the boxes out of the way
and they stuck the gun on a tripod.
That's not how it was.
Did Oswald have a tripod?
Well, if he did, we haven't found it.
So, west end of the Texas School Book Depository.
I think that's the shot that hit Connolly in
the wrist and into his leg.
The angle almost is perfect.
It's the view from the West window.
The Daltex building.
Upper floor of the Daltex building.
There's a fire escape in 1963. There's a fire
escape, great concealment.
Remember, nobody looks up and now you've got a
bunch of steel
ladders and stuff in the way. Nobody's gonna
look at that. It's perfect.
This is a view.
There's the fire escape.
This is a view from the Daltex upper level.
And there's where your target's going to be,
right down that street.
There's the book depository.
140 yards.
Try not to have anything over 110 yards or
less, minus 10 yards.
100 yards is best.
But with a scope, the target's going to look
that big.
I took my scope to Dealey Plaza when we were
writing the book, the first book,
and I had my buddy stand on the X.
You all saw the X on the road.
I was up on the bridge, and I had my scope,
and I said, Casey, you've got a fly on your ear.
He goes, hey, you're right.
That's how much you can see with a good,
powerful scope.
That target is filling that scope.
I'm sorry what he can see that's on the top of
the curb it's on the top and the
face of the curb top face it's on it's on this
side all the way down here
another another low floor that's your target
line the car is moving the
The target's moving parallel with your rifle barrel.
All you can do is just put it out there
and wait till he gets to it.
There's the open window on the fire escape of
the Daltex.
This guy almost fell off at the time of the assassination,
fell down the step,
because something caused him to react
and he almost fell down.
We don't know who he is, but.
Top of the jail.
This picture has probably never been seen before,
except for a few people.
I got this from a good researcher friend of
mine who we're writing the book with.
But this is the top of the jail.
There's the book depository window.
This would be a great spot for not only a
shooter, but a spotter and the radio control guy.
Low ground, probably four spots.
And I know what you're thinking.
Was there somebody in the sewer?
We'll get to that in just a second.
I think there were multiple shooters behind the fence.
Mary Mormon and Gene Hill
I just talked to Mary two weeks ago
and she's doing okay but she says
people send her copies of her picture
and want her to sign it
which is kind of cool
but we're using it on the cover of our book
her Polaroid photograph
and I called her and said can we use your cover
use your picture, she goes of course
if I get a copy of the book, of course
So they said that Mary's taking a picture of
the president right here.
There's her Polaroid.
This is the actual Polaroid.
Granted from her archive.
Close up.
There's the president's head.
This whole area has been blacked out.
I don't know if it was done because of the
photography, but it's not there.
Charles Brehm said on WFAA right after the assassination,
My son Joey and I were in a line of fire, we're
on the south side of the street, we're in a
line of fire.
The Newmans, good friends of mine, Bill and
Gail Newman with their child, their two
children, Clayton and Billy,
were standing there 15 feet from the car, 15
feet, one lane.
Car came down the road, President gets hit in
the head.
that man and woman were taken to a television
station and this is what they said they didn't
have time to make up anything said Kennedy was
directly in front of us and I was looking directly
at him when he was hitting the side of the head
the shot came from the garden directly behind me
that was on an elevation from where we were
standing at the curb sounds like it's from
behind him why he can't make that up why would
he make it up and gail the whole side of his
face and
head could explode and he went down in the car
bill yelled at me to get down and cover the kids
it was so horrible it was right behind them
right there somewhere in here they
covered them and these photographers were
coming through and they could see
this couple throw themselves on the ground they
thought holy crap they've
been shot click Click click oh you're not shot
but there they are
Abraham's of Ruder the guy who filmed the
famous film he said a shot hit him
in the side of the head and the shot came from
behind me these people don't
have time to make this up that's credible I'd
give that more weight than
somebody saying the guy shot from the office
building or from a book
depository you can see in this recreation here
this is the frame 317
that propelled President Kennedy's head back
and to the left and it slammed him
into the back of that car, into the seat.
Jackie was holding on to him, and all of a sudden
she wasn't holding on to him anymore because
he was behind her. The shot blew
his brains out and threw him backwards.
Shot from the right front
of the garden behind me.
Sam Holland was standing on top of the overpass.
He said, I saw smoke drifting out from the
fence line. He says, I went back
over there and saw cigarette Butts
and footprints in the mud, like somebody
had been walking back and forth for a long time.
that's not the book depository this man was
standing on top of the of the on top
of the post office and he said I saw somebody
running from the fence carrying
something he says I couldn't tell what it was
but he was running everybody else
wasn't nobody else was running he was running
Lee Bowers quick story I was at
I brought students down here for the 64 museum
tour and I got kicked out so I
had nothing else to do but sit on the sidewalk
and I see a dart guy the dart
the Dallas area rapid rapid transit pulls up
and I see him going that door
we haven't been able to be in that tower for 45
years and so I thought I'm a nice
guy I'll walk over and talk to him and he was
coming out with a box of tools
and unloading stuff. I said, any chance I can
go up there with you and take a
couple pictures? Sure. Really? Let me make a
call first. You'll never know where I'm
going. Lee Bowers said he saw two men standing
by the fence right here, sorry,
that they were doing something weird. He says,
I don't know what it was but they
were doing something that I didn't recognize
them and they were doing
something caused me to look that direction." So
there's from the Mr.
Bowers's tower that I took. That's my picture.
But he had a whole view of this
area behind the fence. He saw two men who he
didn't recognize wearing it. One was
wearing a suit and one was wearing a hat. He
said they were acting suspicious. Mr.
hours died in a one-car crash in 1966. Happens
all the time. I worked hundreds
of those. Ed Hoffman, a good friend of mine,
wrote a book called Beyond the
Fence Line. I'll show you a picture of it in
just a second. The man I saw, Ed was
on Stemmons. He was on the overpass and he was looking
towards the book depository, the west side. He
sees two men standing over here
and one guy standing by this railroad switch
box right there. He said this guy
was wearing coveralls. The guy was walking back
and forth that had a suit
and a hat on. Says, I thought it was a security
guy. He says, when
the shots were about, Ed was deaf. I forgot to
tell you that. Ed's deaf. He can't
hear a dang thing. But he said he saw the man
bend over, pick up a rifle
and point it over the fence and he saw smoke.
He says, I thought
he was smoking a cigar or a cigarette or
something. He says, they turned and he says, I saw
the rifle across his chest. And the man ran
with the rifle across
his chest ran down here and stopped threw it to
this guy this guy stepped up
to the this pipe caught it took it apart put it
in a canvas bag and ran out of
the parking lot
Malcolm Kilduff press assistant press secretary
tells the world that one
o'clock President Kennedy died of a bullet
right through the brain right
side of the head. Not the back of the head,
right side of the head. Low ground.
This is a Tina Towner photograph that she took,
part of her movie film.
President's car is turning onto Elm Street and
there's the target. The first
car, the first vehicle that stopped at Houston
and Elm
behind the barricade was a laundry truck on top
of that laundry truck are bags of
laundry and it's looking straight down Elm
Street if I was gonna do this
there's one of my shooters right there it's
muffled nobody's gonna and nobody's
gonna look there and you just drive out of the
area I think that's where one of
my shooters is. That's your angle.
It's not practical. It's not a good place. I
wouldn't be there. I could get my big
butt in there. And how do you get out? Will you
just pop up the manhole cover
I go, don't worry about me, I'm just, where you been?
Oh, looking at the sewer.
I believe it was a last resort, I can fit in it.
But now they've welded it closed, you can't
even budget.
So from a tactical standpoint, unless you're a
tunnel rat,
you ain't going to get out of there unless you
come up from the top or come up from the bottom
and I don't think you'd take a chance of doing that
okay let's move on our last one on the bridge
remember there's there's people on this side
of the bridge looking down they're looking at
this they're not looking over here I believe
there was something here I'm not saying a
shooter I'm saying there was something
there that we have photographic proof that and
as you know being down there if you're driving down
that middle lane you're going straight at that
section of the red of the bridge
not for very long maybe 100 yards or so or less
but you're going straight
that's your angle of fire I think I think a
shot was fired from that overhead uh part of
the of
the railroad the triple overpass and I think
that's the shot that hit the windshield punctured
hole right through that windshield there's a
armor piercing quality full metal jacket
rifle bullet that went through that windshield
you cannot pierce it's laminated plastic inside
of a glass you have to have a high velo super
high velocity and a super hard bullet to go
through there but I think that's the shot that
hit the windshield yes ma'am when when the limousine
got to the hospital. Officer Haygood,
you remember the officer I saw, I showed
you climbing the fence? He was
at the hospital shortly thereafter when the
limousine was in the emergency room entrance.
And he took, he saw
the hole, and he goes, what the hell is that?
He took a pencil out, and he stuck
it through the windshield, through
the hole, and he goes, that's a through and
through hole.
Get out of here,
or go away. Secret Service made him
go away. One kid was taking
pictures of
the limousine they took his camera so okay so
here's here's the there's
something up here on the bridge see how it's
blocking the light this is a
billboard on the other side of the street see
how the people are blocking
the light their legs through the court through
the pillars here there's
something blocking the light there's nobody
standing there I think somebody's
squatting down you know in a position like this
there's something there
because shortly after oh god shortly shortly
after this picture was taken
another picture was taken and there's nothing
there's nothing blocking the
light I have a friend of mine photographer
friend of mine got up in
same position I took his picture see how the
lights blocked yeah I think that's consistent
so there's the dillard photograph and there's
my recreation I think somebody was up there and
that's him nobody's going to pay attention to
that we're looking at the president okay
I'm almost done I swear final analysis wow that
was pretty good final analysis
President Kennedy was assassinated
by a rogue group
of militarily trained
highly professional assassins with rifles
and it was covered up by the government
because that doesn't happen in America
we don't have a conspiracy
I believe there was multiple shooters
firing at the same point in the roadway
I believe that some of the shooters didn't have
to shoot because when it got to their position
or got to their responsibility of their zone he
was down they didn't have to shoot a lot of the
witnesses said said one of the shots sounded
like it was totally different than the rest of the
rifle bullets you heard of silencers and
suppressors I believe there was at least 12
rounds fired at
that car and only three were heard.
Whoever did this.
There's 12 injuries on both men and the car.
There's damage to the car on top of the damage
to the men.
Whoever did this didn't abide by our democratic process.
They wanted him out.
And he was making a lot of people mad
and they resorted to this.
Oh God.
Well, I know who didn't do it.
It was Lee Oswald didn't do it.
Visit our website, please.
You'll see pictures that you've never seen before.
They're first generation scans of pictures.
We've got interviews, we've got videos,
we've got everything you want to know
about the Kennedy assassination is on that website.
The next thing I want to show you,
and I'm almost done, I swear,
this is the first book I wrote.
It's called Beyond the Fence Lines about Ed Hoffman.
It's available on Amazon.
I think the last price was like $30.
And we're working on a new book.
Gary Shaw and I are working on a book
we've been working on for almost five years,
and it's called Admitted Assassin.
It's the Roscoe White story.
And if you go to this website, you can pre-order.
We hope to have it done in November,
which is next month.
It was gonna be about that thick,
but now we've cut it down so we can get it published.
But that's my new book.
And any questions?
Okay, let's go questions, go.
Can you go back to one of those pictures of the site
and show us where the grassy knoll is?
Oh, sure. Sure.
Right there.
This whole area is considered the grassy knoll.
To the right in front of the president as he's
coming down the street.
Thank you for your talk.
I have two questions that I have for you.
The first question is, how come not all of them
would have had suppressors?
and the second question is did we have the kind
of technology that would have
allowed stealth communication or encrypted
communication back in 63 yes
to answer your second question first yes and
you know who would have that
military the Dallas police didn't have radio
portable radios in their cars
whenever they got out of the car they were tied
to that radio military had
encrypted high-frequency communication systems
just for that specific reason.
The first part of your question is, I'm sorry
what was it again?
Everybody, why didn't all of the shooters have
suppressors? Why do you think
that not all of them have suppressors? Why
would they leave any sort of
fingerprint? Well it would give them away first
of all. Remember our scenario
calls for all the shots that anybody would hear
had to be coming from this area right here so if
these are suppressed shots nobody would know
any different so if we suppress you know it's
an echo
chamber basically it's like a bow it's like the
Hollywood bowl you fire something in this area
and you don't know where it's coming from but
you don't want to have these shots be audible
because that would say well I heard a shot from
over there by the fence I heard a shot down by
the bridge they didn't want that and if they
did do that if they did allow those
witnesses to be called or interviewed or
whatever they would just suppress it
they wouldn't acknowledge that it ever happened
they didn't oh they don't talk
about in fact one of the people they
interviewed to the Warren Commission
they he said they asked they basically told him
you're not a ballistics expert
are you sir well no well then you didn't hear
what you heard well I know the
difference between a gunshot and a backfire
well you're not a ballistics
expert so they didn't ask him any more
questions same way with the Newman's
they never talked to them was the original
motorcade route supposed to go
right down the middle of Dealey plan yes ma'am
until that morning yes Ma'am
changed yes they had to turn yes yeah it was
published in the paper the day the
day before it was going to go right state down
Main Street quick story Jess
Curry, the Dallas chief of police rode in
advance with Winston Lawson, the
advanced man for President Kennedy on the
Secret Service. He came down two
weeks before and said here's the route we're
gonna take and they started
Love Field and they drove all the way through
Dealey Plaza and they got to
Maine and Houston. And according to Jess
Curry's testimony he said Lawson just
said we're gonna go straight down here and we
can go on. Well at the day of the
assassination they didn't go on down here
because there was a barricade right
here and so this night it's like a bunch of
elephants following in the circus you
follow the one in front of you wherever he goes
you go remember the guy that
drove President Kennedy he was 68 years old
first of all six years past his
retirement mandatory but he'd never been the
last time he was in Dealey Plaza he
drove Franklin Roosevelt through Dealey Plaza
in 19 when they dedicated Dealey
Plaza and the Works Progress Administration
building, the Dealey Plaza.
That's the last time he's been here. He didn't
know what the hell he's doing.
Remember, that's the guy that hated Kennedy too.
I've got three questions for
you. The first one is the bullet. The other two
are logistics. You haven't spent a lot
of time on logistics. The bullet question, I'm
glad you have that chart. You talked
about the bullet that hit the manhole yes amen
but you never talked about when
it was made don't know an assumption it was
done on November 22nd 1963 well it
was it was documented in the Dallas Morning
News that day in the in the
lower and the paper not only was this
documented but this was documented as
well there's two pictures in the Dallas paper
that show that in fact there's a
pin with an arrow it said that the caption said
something like police find
bullet kennedy bullet or something like that so
that was taken that day okay but this assumption
is it was made that day that had to be an
assumption yeah I didn't have a picture beforehand
no it just makes me wonder about a lot of the
theories about when the bullets were
the impact of the bullet was made we had to
make some assumptions on when it was made
that's true I want to get to the logistic
questions you haven't talked about this
given that we had it let's just say we had an
ambush team and this was pre-planned I
I understand that President Kennedy himself
made the decision to remove the bullet top,
I'm sorry, the bubble top from the limousine
just after they arrived from Fort Worth.
What if he did not make that decision
and if it was kept on, what would the ambush
team do then?
Would they just abort the mission
and find another place at another time
to carry out the mission?
I would think so.
So that bubble top he's talking about
a plexiglass clear plexiglass top on the back
part of the car it's not bulletproof and actually
you're you're kind of kind of correct it wasn't
President Kennedy's decision it was uh the man
who was the uh that's actually my second
question yeah who made that decision bill
moyers made that
decision at the airport to to remove that
bubble top so that people could see the
president right
Chief of Staff for LLBJ.
Bill Moyers?
I don't know.
I couldn't tell you.
I would think that he certainly had motive to
do whatever Lyndon Johnson said.
I know that.
But whether Lyndon Johnson told Bill Moyers to
remove the bubble top,
I don't know if he would have been able to do that.
But Bill Moyers is the one responsible for
taking that bubble top off the car.
What else? Yeah.
okay so I'd still don't understand why did
Kennedy need to be killed what were
they what was the main purpose of that Vietnam
was a big one he was gonna pull
out of Vietnam the military-industrial complex
probably said no that ain't
gonna work we need to get that in there Vietnam
War was the big motivator
Kennedy was gonna pull out in 65 he already
wrote a memorandum saying at 65
all the troops are going to start be pulling
out the money the banking system
he was removing us from the gold standard and
putting us back on the
Federal Reserve note oil the Texas oil he was
depleting the allowance that the
people would be able to write off 18.5% of their
taxes to oil depletion getting along with the
Soviets not invading Cuba you
name it mafia he hated the mafia loved him no
they didn't what else there was
a Cuba they weren't gonna go to Cuba I tell you
who the who might who my prime
players are you look on the Joint Chiefs of
Staff two guys General Limitzer and
General Taylor those guys had a lot of
influence on the rest of the Joint
chiefs and this was a military operation and
Lemitzer hated Kennedy and LeMay
hated Kennedy absolutely there's a whole book
about George or about LeMay he was
the Air Force SAC strategic air command guy and
CIA was another reason to kill
him because Kennedy was going to abolish the
CIA scatter to the winds he said so
So there's some motivation, you know, and a
bullet is only about, you know, a buck and
a half.
So it was easy, easy to justify it.
I'm sorry, dear?
Well, that's a good question.
How do they keep it quiet afterwards?
Let me, let me just play Jeb's advocate here.
Let's say this table right here is my team and
these are all my mechanics and my operatives.
Do you really think that they're going to live
very long after this is over with?
You're gone.
That's what they were going to do with Oswald
is take him out of the country.
They killed him before they got him out of the
country and that's what the Roscoe White
story is going to be about.
They were going to take, Oswald was the patsy.
Everybody in the plot knew that he was the patsy.
The government didn't know who he was,
and then he gets whacked by Jack Ruby,
and then people start to think,
maybe there's more to this than that.
Now, one lone guy, the guy never admitted
that he killed President Kennedy,
never admitted he shot Tippett,
never admitted that he shot Governor Conley.
What's his motivation?
He loved President Kennedy, according to his wife,
who I've talked to many, many times,
that he liked President Kennedy.
Oh, I thought he was doing a great job.
Why would he kill him?
You don't, multiple people were involved in
this, and they're all gone.
Most of them are gone.
They were handpicked, my dear, by Lyndon Johnson.
And if you don't do what Lyndon Johnson says,
you'll suffer for it the rest of your day.
These guys knew the script before the witnesses
showed up.
They knew what this person was going to testify to.
they knew that he saw that this witness
particular witness for example saw
something different they never asked him that
question and then if he if he
volunteered it as well you don't you're not a
ballistics guy you don't know what
you're talking about this was a pre pre done
scenario where we had to have we
had to know the results that we knew that we
had to know the government was
going to cover our ass if we did this and let
us get away with it right how
many slides to get through all of them oh I did
200 I did what about there's
one slide that you have a missing that I
remember you had and it was one of the
guys walking across Dealey Plaza with like a
some kind of construction or
maintenance guy, but he's wearing nice shoes.
You remember that? Oh, that's the tramps? The
three tramps?
Yeah. There was, there was three, after the
shots were fired, people were
pointing toward the railroad yard and behind
Dealey Plaza, behind the picket
fence area, and one of the officers told the
switchman, Lee Bowers, and said, hey,
stop that train from going. There might be
people on there. So they stopped the
train opened up the oh yeah yeah yeah the
member I showed you the this the
manhole cover right here the big crowd had
gathered in the picture with Buddy
Walters and officer and they picked it up the
guy with the white socks seconds
after that last picture that William Allen took
for the Dallas Morning News
there was a guy walking across the street he
had sneakers on 1963 nobody
wore sneakers they didn't have sneakers back
then but this guy was wearing
sneakers wearing Khaki pants a Khaki shirt with
his name Bob or whatever it
was across his shirt and he's got a hat a claw
hammer in his hand who walks
around with a claw hammer and he's going right
over to that drainage inlet he's
He's part of the cleanup team, I think.
He's going to dig around and make sure that
bullet's not there.
So if you have some questions for Brian, he'll
be here for a little bit, and you can come
up and ask him.
First of all, let's give him a hand.
Thank you.
Did you enjoy that?
Pretty good.
He does a great job, as good as anybody I've
seen talk about ballistics, and, of course,
he's got the authoritative background to speak
from it.
So, terrific.
some of the questions you covered we covered a
lot of Warren Commission stuff
on the first night so you can get the video on
that the Secret Service stuff
I'm going to talk a lot about Secret Service at
the law school during that
museum there so we'll cover a lot of that there
if there are some other
things that you have questions about and feel
free to ask Brian tonight or myself
and we'll try to either talk to them then or
address them address them there
in some of the next presentations.
Any of you coming back to the next one?
Oh, we look forward to seeing you.