You can't really come and use our material. Yeah.
They won't be released until about the end of the year.
We want to release them all at the same time.
To start with. Um,
I might just give you an example of how oral history does work and something
like public administration.
Last week as I was sitting with a blank piece of paper in the typewriter
wondering where I was going to say to you,
this came across my desk and it came in from, uh,
with just a few papers from one of Earl Warren's top most associates when he was
governor.
This man we had started interviewing and then he had a very sudden and fatal
heart attack.
So he got his papers that we weren't able to really get into the interview with
him. Uh, we had not been able to. And um, the,
this turn has turned into a kind of a mystery paper. It's called Earl Warren,
his stand. It's clearly a campaign document.
Um, but there's nothing on it that gives it a date. And the um,
the issues that are named on it make you think that it didn't occur in the 1952
campaign because there's no mention of wartime issues such as the Korean war.
We've eliminated all of the, all of the presidential campaigns.
It's got to be a presidential campaign cause they're all national issues.
So then the question is
Roz Earl Warren really thinking about running for president in 1956 this was
laid next to a newspaper item,
which was a story of a gathering by gathering bandwagon for Earl Warren for
president at the time. Eisenhower had his heart attack in 55.
Now if we could just go back to this man who was the secretary and say,
why did you save this and why do you have it next to that clipping?
We might know more about it.
So far everyone we've talked to is insisted that including her, Warren himself,
but no one, that there was never any,
any idea or any serious consideration of his running for president in 56.
And yet somebody who has a compiled list and it looks like experience six.
So that's where your oral history comes in and supplements papers.
That's one example. I have more to say about that later. Um,
when the Warren project did finally get underway with funding from the national
endowment for him from uh, from the national endowment for humanities.
Uh,
we were very eager to start interviewing at that point because we'd been wanting
to go for eight years. Um,
it was to cover all of the California era of our warrant and criminal justice
because he was district attorney and attorney general in politics and in state
administration.
We had learned a little bit with prior and smaller series that oral history is
80% research at least and 20% interviewing.
Also the selection of interviewees can make our Bay make or break a project.
Um,
we thought that we would want to set up a very careful priority list from
something like four pages,
single space that we had accumulated of names and possibilities.
We'd run a check these out and select a few for full length biographies and
select some for a just me short episodic interviews on just one topic when we
knew just one person can fill us in on something.
And then we would have a few who were, uh,
who would fall into the category of primarily episodic,
but they themselves are significant enough that we couldn't let them go without
getting just a quick wrap up on their own career.
In biography to this that I have brought you is mostly a collection of episodic
and then Wars,
all of the battle for health insurance in the forties for state health
insurance.
And you can see how this fits into a, uh,
a turtle collection that would include much longer interviews and then some that
are quite brief and short.
So this was the way we proceeded as additional staff was added.
Uh, we finally had, uh,
five people who were broken in,
in various areas of expertise.
We drew up chronologies by going through some of worm's old scrapbooks and uh,
uh, other materials that we had on hand and could find,
we used newspaper files heavily at this point and um,
we began going around to some of the persons who are on the list.
There were obviously high priority.
Those who were very close to Ron either politically are in his governor's office
and other offices. We didn't tape record these early conferences,
uh, to, to produce this, although we did tape them just to backup our notes.
These were first of all to have them look at this long list of names and give us
their reactions to them and what each person would be good for and so forth.
But then when we went around,
we found out that this list also served as a sort of raw shock test for the
person we were talking to because as he would remark on so-and-so or we could
tell by his own point of view wise so that we would have that.
Then when we went back with him to really talk and tape record formally.
And that's kind of important if you're getting into sensitive topics. Um,
also as we, um, as we did tape,
we have used some of the tapes from those sessions. Um,
I think a couple of the guys, uh, since then have, um,
have died or have become an in such poor health that they couldn't tape record
and that's all we had from him.
So we were awfully glad that we did tape that and some of them have been
incorporated into longer interviews. Then
we also were able at this time to draw up a list of topics for our own research
trials because we began to get in all of this accumulation of data,
which we needed to share with everybody on the staff and we needed to do it on
almost a weekly basis. So as we got in our own research material,
what we produced as the data was instantly useful.
Um, so we drew this up and surprisingly enough,
this has lasted as a viable list and division of all the topics we were covering
for the whole three years. Uh, and we're going into our fourth year now.
So I, um,
I had a bunch of these runoff so that if this is relevant to any of you,
you can kind of tell what,
what kind of topics we had in mind when we started out this and all during our
research. It's,
it doesn't give you an index to the interviews themselves.
It just gives you an idea of the kind of subject matter that's involved in this.
So that was a system whereby we tried to educate ourselves to make over and how
and figure out how to make rural history operable.
The list of interviewees was gradually boiled down with all this advice.
We were getting to about 80 names covering the various period subjects and
points of view. It included persons close to Earl Warren,
his good friends, his hunting buddies,
members of the articulate opposition,
even one or two from the more hell raising diatribe camp that don't really,
that aren't really very articulate,
but they're valuable as examples of that type of opposition.
They include the close political advisors and workers in each major campaign.
The staff who helped him develop the district attorney's office in Alameda
County,
which was significant because it led the state in quality and effectiveness in
law enforcement and criminal prosecution at the time.
It's also highly pertinent to his later decisions on the Supreme court.
It includes members of his state, attorney staff, uh,
attorney general staff,
his close associates and major assistance and the governor's office and includes
the heads of the major state departments and some of their assistance.
There are Ryan Democrats, their labor leaders,
their rank of rank and file and his legislative friends on both sides of the
aisle who tried to handle his programs for him in the legislature and so forth.
It also, what you might call parallel figures in this, uh, people who,
who, uh, would, would rather run with him.
I mean running the same campaigns with him, uh,
such as Helen Geoghegan Douglas in the 1950 governor's race and she was running
for Senator and uh, we try to get these people also.
And finally it includes those rash office seekers who had the temerity to run
against her Warren and of course who always lost.
Once we began interviewing in our various fields of developed expertise,
we of course had to make some substitutions and additions as we went along in
this list. Um,
some people's memory proved not to be very good by the time we got around to
them. We'd have to just simply close off the interview.
But mostly we added persons. Um,
we added quite a few, for instance,
to the 1946 gubernatorial campaign because the first person we talked to about
that said, gee, I wish I had all those papers from the campaign,
but we burned them because after I'd paid rent to beacons for six years,
we did, we decided we didn't want to pay rent anymore.
So we thought we're only better yet a lot on that. So and all.
Now we have about 115 persons who have interviewed for us.
Some of the major concepts of inquiry. We have had two,
we found that we've had to write up these concepts and notes to the files,
no stress selves, uh,
because we found ourselves putting together these stories separately if we
didn't do this. There are such things as the,
as following up the main points of Warren's positions, uh,
during his lifetime on things like one man,
one vote and other things that deal with his Supreme court experience.
Um,
these white papers that are proved very useful also enhanced in the handing them
out to an interviewee because it gives them something to hang onto when they get
onto this subject and the know that they do have this as a basis for their
memory. Um, we had a,
we have an initial frustration and at that almost every oral historian has in,
uh, in a project like this, uh,
you have to confine yourself to the basic design of your project.
And yet you don't like to tape record a man like X Senator Tom Kiko,
and talk to him about his years as controller in California and then say,
well thanks a lot and goodbye. Um,
so we haven't fortunate to have a number of spin-offs into new projects such as
Kate old square.
We're going to be able to do a complete biography of him now in Berkeley using
the papers from his senatorial career that he's given to the Bancroft library
and he's going to be there with us. And,
and this will be a very systematic and should be quite useful. Um,
we have, um,
we're also going to do the same thing with Pat Brown and we also have his
papers. Um,
we have a Negro political leaders subsection to the Warren project and,
uh, this has, this was, uh, developed into a fuller series in black history.
Another advantage to doing a large series on one subject like this is that as
you go back for additional sessions with a person or when you send him the rough
transcript for his inundation,
you can add other questions that have arisen from interviews with other people
and we find ourselves,
we don't zero in on one person and finish him up like that.
We hold off for that next session a little bit and see what other material comes
to them. Okay. Um,
now for you people who I suppose will be using these volumes in your research
are who might be producing them?
There are times when we're all history interviews are especially useful and
there things that really they are not useful and should not be used for.
They received their highest use as a supplement to the records, of course.
And as you know,
official office files of Warren's governor period are not open.
We were fortunate enough to be able to work with the archivist in order to get a
good priority series on topics to pursue relation to what was and was not in the
files.
And then Warren gave us some permission to use some of the things. But,
uh, when those are open,
then our interviews will be there so that the two can be used together.
Um,
our manuscript should aid in correcting newspaper accounts and, um,
we have a number of instances of that in our interviews.
There tends to be planted stories and campaigns and you see the story,
but you don't always see the retraction of it. For instance, um,
each one presents an ongoing account of what happened from only one person's
viewpoint.
And you have to remember that with the human perceptions at that time that were
brought to bear on decisions. Um,
they show how human relationships and human attitudes and prejudices work
together to cause the formulation of policies and procedures.
And then they provide the colorful material to help interpret the feel of the
period.
They portray the person's personality just in his interaction with the
interviewer. But most of all,
in a series like this and wears the same events and phenomenon discussed with
more than one participant,
it tests conclusions that you've reached tentatively are theories that you hold
dear.
And also abolishes a few historical myths that have grown up.
Like everyone has told us before we started this,
about how Earl Warren's devotion to health insurance by the state sponsored by
the state was a big cause.
He had had all of these crippling expenses in his family for medical bills and
found smoke. Not true. He never had any crippling expensive.
The reasons are entirely different. They come from another source.
Sometimes our interviews even provide how to information like human stark of the
youth authorities. The hilarious practical advice on public relations.
He goes about,
I'm telling you how you can convince a community that what it wants more than
anything else,
is your correctional facility located in its midst.
Um,
usually the products of oral history are not useful for certain types of
information like the twists and turns and submissions and resubmissions and
amendments and riders in the history of a bill and all the related bills that
are usually submitted with it. You don't go to oral history for that,
but the drama of the hearings, the main points of controversy,
I think when you do paper research,
everything gets kind of monolithic and you can't tell what was the really hot
controversy because it's all there in front of you,
but you don't know which one was the really hot one that comes out.
Things get peaks and valleys. Then in oral history, um,
the good guys and the tactics of the good guys in the tactics of the enemy are
clearly spelled out usually.
And if this is used with the copies of the bills and the history and have a
session where you can get a pretty good story. The second thing,
oral history sources are not good for establishing exact,
uh, data like records, dates,
names of everybody on a commission. Uh, things like this. Uh,
we try to go through and get,
get the dates stablish it's awfully easy to confuse campaigns,
especially when your main figure is running so many. But, uh,
and we try to keep those straightened down,
but you still don't use oral history for that. A oral history, however,
does help you establish dates where none exists in the papers.
Such as in the first thing that I showed you there. I have something else here.
I wish I had time to read you, but I really don't.
But I thought it would help wake up everybody after lunch.
It's the story of the liquor control board and the scandals of the bribes and so
forth, which occurred from three viewpoints.
And this is a good example of how you see in from different points on this.
And how come nothing was done on this until 1952.
Um,
the reminiscences obviously did not give much of an objective view of a complete
episode,
but in a series you get a fuller story than could be had at the time.
I suspect we are always asking a question of one person on how did this tactic
of your political opponent affect you or something. And he says, Oh,
is that what he was doing? And it turns out that,
that now that it's all over with,
we can have a fuller view than he could have a good time. He was in it.
Um, now having warned you about the shortcomings of world history,
I want to list for you some of the future books and articles that we hope will
be written from this series. The first one, of course,
is a description and evaluation of a period of administrative reform in the
classical progressive sense,
the old Hiram Johnson Teddy Roosevelt tradition marked by the use of experts in
an attempt to develop a science of administration and effort to make our
political process manageable through bureaucratic development and a fully
operable belief in the value of continuous feedback from the public and
participation by the general public.
Such as study would emphasize the 11 years of Warren's administration in
California and his reforms in reorganization continued more or less intact after
he left for another 15 years.
So that such a research book or paper would provide a picture of a quarter of a
century of California state administration.
This was the period in which I,
California was developing its economic and political and perhaps social
imperialism for the rest of the nation that today you hear so much about.
Now, if that commercial didn't turn you on, I have another suggestion.
How about a thesis on the story of the gasoline tax bottle over a battle over
the freeway bills where the oil companies and the trucking interests lined up
against the governor in his forces and of course the state health insurance
bills.
This would be useful in the study of lobbyists income fornia at that time versus
those more committed to the public interest. Um,
how about doing something on the bipartisan political scene in legislature now
that cross filing no longer exists.
It's fascinating to see how the lines of interests were so different then from
the way they are now.
Another might be a full running history of one of the campaigns at this.
Another.
There is also a good deal on the political efforts of the black community called
the Negro community. Then if this were pulled together,
it would be a significant study of the Priebus boycott period in California.
Also we have interviews with the Japanese relocation and that whole decision
making and how it was carried out, uh,
which I think adds quite a lot of new material. Um,
there's a great deal of material, of course,
on the operation of the governor's office and who influenced to how public
concerns were cranked in and how they were developed in relation to the types of
personalities of the people in the immediate executive family.
And how about County government?
Several persons from the district attorney's office talk about various cases,
reorganization, its relations with other law enforcement agencies,
criminal justice procedures and how they were developed and changed.
Uh, perhaps one of the most important developments was the art organizational
efforts at that time for statewide law enforcement cooperation and also
statewide law enforcement lobbying organizations.
And this was one of our Warren's main, um, contributions.
His, um, attorney General's office was just a four year tenure,
but it bears the Warren's stamp, uh,
starting four years before that when he, um,
put on the ballot,
a complete reorganization redefinition of the attorney General's office,
which California still has today.
Then four years later he ran for this office.
Through both of these periods.
There are any number of criminal cases that could make a good book if anyone
here is in criminal justice and, and wants to write something,
cloak and dagger re um,
not the least of which is that long battle with Tony Carnero and his gambling
ships that sat off here in the Bay offs Santa Monica Harbor and was the,
it must have given many man hours of work to people in the attorney General's
office for quite awhile. And finally, of course,
Abraham Lincoln has his Carl Sandburg and we're hoping that uh,
Carl Sandburg will emerge for Earl Warren too.
1: It's very much cheetah would like to move on now to our next panelist,
Dr. Charles Crawford.
In addition to being an associate professor of history at Memphis state
university has been directing in the oral history program there some of the
interview topics they've had have been the Tennessee Valley authority aviation
in the South. Um, Martin Luther King in particular his assassination.
Um, Dr. Crawford has served as well.
Currently he's vice president of the oral history association.
Before that he served as a council member for three years.
He's been involved in numerous associations and done a lot of work,
which I won't get into.
I suppose he'd rather have his work in character summarized just out of scholar,
poet, lover of music, good wine, good food. What else? Shawn,
2: thank you very much.
Today I'll try to limit your remarks to about 10 to 15 minutes of time and in
topic to a single project,
which is an oral history study of a specific government agency.
The Tennessee Valley authority,
they project was started in 1969 where though an estimated stretch out time,
uh,
about five years and to deal first where the planning for the project and then
to get on to personnel preparation and the extent of it,
they project was initiated at that time because I consider the establishment of
the Tennessee Valley authority,
one of the most important things in the economy of the South since
reconstruction blocked reconstruction did too.
And the civil war could devastate the economy of the South.
Now the TVA did restore, at least, you know, they seven state area.
So I saw them because of the importance in uh,
the economic development on the South.
It deserves study far a second reason they uh,
study the Tennessee Valley, sorry.
I think you provided an opportunity to examine a relatively recent about
permanent and ongoing government agency,
which while did lay a bubble
for study under whatever kind of microscope we code apply and I'm setting up the
project.
There were factors out of the people involved that convinced me it should be
started rather quickly.
And one of them was that it was a critical time in terms of the age of the
people involved.
They a age factor was such that most of the kind of sea Valley authority
personnel were still living the authority being initiated as part of the,
under the days and the new deal program of Franklin Roosevelt established by the
Tennessee Valley authority act in 1933. Mate,
it was staffed at that time by extremely young people so that most of them at
the time we initiated the project in 1969. We're still living. However,
the critical time was present because they were reaching the age at which they
actuarial tables were considerably against them. That, uh,
assessment was born out because since I have started the project,
we have suffered a mortality rate of about 5% and all that.
He has of course increasing year by year and setting up the project.
We consider the personnel to be involved and made a few decisions about it,
which I think were crucial to the scope of the project.
One of them was in terms of the agency personnel to be involved,
those of NSE Valley, we would limit the,
uh, interviews that he has. They paint, uh,
spoken memoirs out of the people in the Tennessee Valley SRP to those who had at
some time they, the employees of the agency as much as possible.
I know the decision was to include a few knowledgeable outsiders when she
category included dock consultants, various kinds news [inaudible],
particularly working journalists,
reporters who had specifically covered the authority and also some political
personnel. We decided to deal,
you know,
another decision about it only as far as the agency was concerned,
we had retired personnel in order to deal with people whose careers would
already be terminated,
at least as far as the authority was concerned and also to deal with people who
had no present responsibility for project underway where the TVA so that they
would be afraid to speak up what they had done and extent of the project.
We decided to extend it to more than 100 people and possibly as many as 200 we
decided from a thorough study of the agency
that I studied now that extent couldn't get all the people who had key parts in
administration and the authority itself and in the development of its various
phases.
So while that was the basic series of decisions in terms of people to be
interviewed and the personnel to work in the project,
we decided that it couldn't be the work of one interview or as much as possible
because a great deal of preparation was involved and the interviews themselves
constituted a form of preparation and that by interviewing one person then
successfully dozens of others person conducting the project would accumulate a
great deal of knowledge that could be carried forward in subsequent interviews.
So it was decided that one person would do it and they project was then signed
by the director of that office. I needed myself to myself,
not very willingly,
but we didn't have another specialist in economic history of the area available
at the time. That has had one consequence,
which was the accumulation of a great deal of knowledge of course about the
agency and has had another consequence in that yet crude to my satisfaction and
that of my institution that it was an administrative mistake.
It is generally administrating the state in our opinion to try to direct a
project and to do the field work. And it also, nonetheless,
that was the procedure that we followed and it's still being followed out.
And Lily throughout for probably the entire study of TVA
and preparation far the project after the,
uh, national planning decisions had been made.
The next step was rather extensive research waste consisted,
and I believe this is vital to oral history projects in general, uh,
studying all the materials available for about a one year period.
During that time,
I made an attempt to read everything that had been written about TVA course.
So much material was not available.
Some of the records are stored in government warehouses,
but in a year as the intensive study,
it is possible to make reasonably good preparation at least in preparing for the
project and reading available sources. They, uh,
necessary information laws acquired to discover not only what had been written
about this particular agency, about what had not been written,
that he had squared the gaps in the historical record were located and they
purpose, uh,
naturally out of the project was to cover these gaps by supplying information.
Particularly part of the things that had never been recorded are perhaps were
suspected of being recorded incorrectly. Well,
another part of preparation, the antibiotic they selecting of interview,
he said he has people to contribute their memoirs to be interviewed in the
project. The first step,
a first step in that was accumulating a master list of all the people who had
been involved in agency in positions of particular comms.
Clams are people who were assumed by virtue of being consultants are associated
on the outside to have special knowledge them. Nice,
secure the assessments of the personnel department.
And they had the public relations department of the Tennessee Valley authority
itself and security consultation asked if what people in this list mine to be
most important to interview. Also, uh,
after this was done. And the last was expanded in some parts, uh,
reduced in others.
We set up certain priorities as to the order in which the 100 to 200 people
should be interviewed. Uh, this, uh, involved, uh,
several factors, uh, placed in the scale.
One of them of course was the age factor. Generally speaking,
we found it well to interview the older people first of course.
Uh,
we also saw information about the health of the people who were surviving that
is probable life expectancy and use that as a factor. Also,
if people were in poor health, we have to enter to get to them first. Also,
of course they important, uh,
they position on the list in terms of what he might know and what decisions he
might have observed while I was in factor as well.
So in front of the planning was given also the matter of guaranteeing the
integrity of the project and we made several arrangements for that.
One of them was that the project would have to be entirely independent of the
agency being studied. The Tennessee Valley authority gave, uh,
and is still giving excellent, uh, cooperation.
Providing assistance in locating a farmer personnel, um,
providing space for interviews, uh, office space, uh, telephone seventeens,
uh, transportation occasionally.
But the basic financing came from the university and the control of the project,
uh, was always in the hands of the university so that, uh,
the study was prayed to collect any start of information, uh,
reach any conclusions if conclusions wouldn't be reached from it,
that might turn up.
Also to secure the integrity of the project.
We made arrangements far restriction of the material if the people who were
being interviewed felt that their material was controversial enough.
Our editor, personal reasons to wish that their material be restricted.
We agreed to restrict restricted car a given time period generally until the
death. Uh, the person who gave the interview cause that'll,
while we also provided where necessary,
cause I have to restriction with continue until the NAFTA,
other people who were involved in certain matters were considered
they next decision in preparation and the next work left in deciding what,
sorry. Uh, people, we would collect this information far.
I determined to collect this, uh,
account of the agency far the immediate future and for a period,
at least 200 years, uh, from the present. So, uh,
the question had to be asked as to what sort of person we were collecting this
far. What do we collected far historians, sociologists, political scientists,
administrative students, so ecologists, so hydraulic engineers.
But then it became apparent that,
uh,
asking the question revealed how ridiculous it was looking back as well as far
as 200 years ago,
none of these disciplines existed as separate disciplines.
And we felt that it was impossible to guess the future well enough for a couple
of centuries,
particularly in the face of such change that we face now to know what
disciplines,
what he was asked several centuries in the future and what Sargent people would
use this material.
So we decided not to concentrate on any particular aspect on the agency,
not on flood control, not on its personnel policies,
not on the administrative structure, not on forest screen,
not on wildlife preservation nor any of the other aspects,
but simply to get the entire story of the agency in the people,
the words with people and picked with the specialists as nearly as they could
give it to us that a procedure has been followed and the extent,
the status of the project at this time is that as of today I have completed
interviews with 106 and I believe women,
six of the key people and the establishment of the Tennessee Valley authority.
That includes all the living farmer directors except one who has a very recent
former director and I'm beginning to see him soon and that includes most of the
other people who are major department heads.
A major consultants are who had important roles.
There are others to be reached of course, and at this time.
Then the project includes interviews with 106 people and 175 different
interviews and they projected completion if they find nearest term is followed
would be, Oh,
the summer of 1974 actually progress has been sufficient that probably we will
declare an official termination of the project sometime in this year,
perhaps during the summer,
not because we have interviewed everyone who should be,
but because the Tennessee Valley authority is celebrating its 40th birthday and
this is a suitable time to I suppose to declare and a facial end to it.
We will, however, I'll continue interviewing as needed.
Our projects need not and simply because you have a formal announcement,
they're over and there will be some followup interviewing,
particularly as other people retire as far out
they processing of material.
It follows a fairly standard farm at uh,
is taken to my office after the key personnel has been interviewed and there it
is typed into transcript farm.
That copy is given to the person interviewed and there, uh,
it is edited off to whatever extent he wishes, um,
within reasonable limits that he is dividing paragraphs with differently.
I'll spelling words as they choose and so forth.
That needs to return to us for final copies. We make three copies.
One of the ways is returned to the person interviewed and the other two are
placed together with the tape and the special collections archives.
Now that our university library where, uh,
they do provide permanent record for people who wish to study the agency,
they a record that has been accumulated in this project to this time,
it has the most complete, uh,
that is available on the Tennessee Valley authority.
You have to issue by researchers and will necessarily be used in the future by
serious scholars who are writing about the Tennessee Valley authority.
Because there we have the personal memoirs, uh,
more than 100 people who weren't most active in establishing this agency.
The material is, uh, available, uh, far research.
It's available for your use and your care coalition is a taped,
so review the manuscript,
it's available as next session and there are a few restricted tapes,
but actually only a very few. During the course of this, uh,
study,
I reached a number of conclusions about this particular government agency, uh,
about staffing, about, uh,
the nature of the administration comparison of how it really was with the
organization, with charge about the relevant directors,
about the unusual nature of this particular government agency and about the
degree. Um, it's success, however, uh,
to give you comments about those things would take more time than I planned to.
So unless that comes up in a question period,
I'll simply conclude at this point by inviting you should any of you wish to do
so to, uh, make research use of any of our records,
which I emphasize again are the most complete available. Um,
this one articular government agency, the Tennessee Valley authority.
1: Thank you Charles.
We appreciate seeing another dimension of oral history in public administration.
Our final panelist, dr John Wickman,
received his PhD from the University of Indiana and soon afterwards had the
valuable experience of being an end CEP postdoctoral fellow.
Since 1966,
he's been director of the Dwight D Eisenhower program and done many oral history
interviews on the Eisenhower administration.
Currently he's serving as precedent of the oral history association,
which may have as many experiences of interest as that.
If the Eisenhower library or as many problems probably would be a better word.
John also is kind of a bone. We've all talked like Charles,
but I think we could just limit it to your experience with the eyes and how are
longer
3: and be like in a big revelation. Uh, in my remarks,
I,
I will not go over the grounds and so well covered by both Charles and cheetah
aspects of world history interviewing.
But instead because I was raised and case study method in my own work and public
administration,
I'll tend to stick to that and will not take the Greer four hours that I read my
answer. Uh,
when I became the director of the Eisenhower presidential library in 1966 there
were a total of seven oral history interviews in the holdings of the library
library staff had managed to do these seven in a period of five years,
which tended to say something to me about how difficult oral history is.
These seven interviews were most interesting because they represented the best
thinking that had been brought to bear on the problem of oral history in a
presidential library at that particular time and in that particular place.
The interviews were primarily with older citizens in the president's home town
of Abilene, Kansas.
People who had either known president Eisenhower as a child or a young man,
or we've been long associated with his family.
No one had been curious about the fact that this one individual had also been
the commander of shape in the second world war commander was shaped native
Korean president of Columbia university or even president the United States.
They were going to start at the beginning the way most historians love to do and
bought on to the an extra book conclusion. Eventually,
as I looked at what had been done,
I realized that we were going to have to do a little re-evaluation because
though the people there might've been comfortable if we followed this line of
attack by the year 2010 we might even have 14 interviews,
possibly 21 if you really hurried along with it.
So we started restructuring the whole program inside the presidential library
and tried to keep our restructured program cognizant of the fact that we also
hold most of the manuscripts of the Eisenhower administration,
currently some 19 billion pages of manuscript material.
The result of this reappraisal then, uh,
let us do set up some new priorities on just how we would proceed.
The first thing we did was to move our focus from Eisenhower's early life to the
presidency and to the important,
the office of that is that the president United States,
because a presidential library,
they almost also deal eventually with the whole biography of the president.
We knew that we would have to investigate other portions of his life and the
problem simply became one of allocation.
How rapidly would we shift priorities,
how rapidly it was to be able to move ahead.
We took the perspective, as Charles indicated,
he took his program of approximately a hundred years from 1966 this more for a
sense of balance and the kinds of questions we would develop rather than
anything else.
And also because a hundred years would take away most of the restrictions.
Um, this is a fact that the presidential library or history projects is really
rather important. You have to keep reminding people that, uh,
the thing that's close today eventually will be open.
At least you hope it will be open and the respondent may open you up. And also,
so if you take two immediate of view of the whole thing,
then you frequent a little block, uh,
lines of questioning that could be developed. If you said, well,
in a hundred years, you know,
all the people who helped you steal that will be drawn.
One point of view. Uh,
so we broke the oral history program into two sections.
The first section on the presidency,
which we started on with the help of the Columbia roastery project office at
Columbia university to a grant from the Adama for the national ballet,
for the humanities and the second program,
a smaller one mountain at the library would go across the early careers and also
the post-presidential careers.
These were areas where we were gathering papers and were areas that we could,
we could get into at our, our end of things, a Columbia roastery project office.
Then from 1967 until 1972,
uh,
ran a portion of this program or the advice and consent of the director of the
library.
We wanted to reach as many people and the shortest possible amount of time and
try to gain an edge on human mortality,
which is I'm sure by this time you appreciate is the,
is the overriding factor in oral history work vacuum.
You don't get on with it.
You're going to lose all the people who can tell you what you want to know.
We also bought a program because we are part of the national archives and
records service in that agency to try to ensure new funding for our oral history
program as well as that of several other presidential projects.
Several of the things we learned during the past seven years.
Then in dealing with this oral history project can be summarized as follows.
The approximate position of an individual organizationally to the precedent does
not necessarily make him better or worse prospect for what was pre-interviewing.
This is so because we're in communications have been regularly used between
individuals in the organizational structure.
Frequently those individuals have little information to impart about what the
president thought or said, other than what you wrote down.
On the other hand, people who deal with the president regularly at any level,
whether it's his barber or whether it's his valet or whether it's a chauffeur or
anything else where instructions are given, uh,
tend to train themselves to listen. And frequently in the memory process,
as this goes up the line to, I don't want your thinking just interviewed
[inaudible], but it goes on up the line, the presidential advisors,
but they train themselves to listen and to remember who says what.
So the later on, 10 years later, 15 years later,
they frequently can reconstruct, uh, with sometimes amazing. Let's see,
what's the bacon, bro?