We are recording.
Today is July 16, 2015. I’m with Mr. Guillermo Glen here in El Paso.
I’m Sanne Enriquez and here is David Robles.
Can you hear?
Mr. Glen, I’m going to ask you a few questions at the
beginning so that you can be a little more
comfortable with the camera.
Can you tell us when and where you were born and a
little bit about your childhood and how you grew up?
Well, I was born in what is called Grand Falls,
Texas, which is in Ward County, west of Odessa,
Texas, in a small town.
And that’s where I was born.
That’s where I grew up, in the neighborhood, which
was mainly Mexican, because at that time there was
a lot of discrimination in west Texas.
Right away, in the town called Imperial, that’s
where I really grew up. It’s close to Grand Falls.
But there in Imperial there were two schools, one
for Americans and one for Mexicans.
I was seven years old when I went to the school for Mexicans.
There were two classes, one to eight and nine to twelve.
My sister went from nine to twelve and I went to that school.
So we stayed there for a year and the next year they
let us go to the American school.
What were your experiences at the Mexican school
before you moved to the American school?
And what was the school called?
They just called it the Mexican school. It was a
good experience. We were all together because I
had a lot of cousins.
So we all went there, from my age and a little older.
But it wasn’t like a regular school, because we were split into seven classes.
And then we did go to the regular school, but they
put us in beginners again because we didn’t know English.
And then we moved to first grade. So I was in first grade for three years.
It started in grade zero, as they say in the U.S.
Zero something.
And when you were in the American school, were there other Mexicans there?
What was the percentage?
There weren’t many, but all my cousins went.
There was still discrimination because we were older.
Some of us had just arrived and were already 12 or 13 years old.
So it was a mix.
But we kept learning English.
Did your teachers scold you for speaking Spanish in school?
What kind of punishments did they give you?
They didn’t do anything, because they would scold you.
But since not everyone went, there was a lot of pressure.
They told us not to speak Spanish.
And when you went to the American school, when did you leave high school?
In ’61.
What did you decide to do? Did your teachers tell you you could go to school?
Or did they motivate you?
The school was so small, there were only nine of us in the senior class.
So there wasn’t much promotion.
But I did receive a small scholarship.
And I decided to go to St. Mary’s in San Antonio.
But since I worked in a store in high school, I also
worked in the oil industry.
I spent all the money I had received, because the scholarship was very small.
But I kept the money for my work.
So I transferred to North Texas, because it was much cheaper.
What did your parents do when you were a teenager?
My dad worked at the water cable.
There was irrigation at that time.
My uncles were sharecroppers.
They planted cotton.
And we also picked the cotton.
My dad had more rank because he had a job.
He wasn’t a farmer.
And your mom?
At home.
Was it very common for people to be sharecroppers in the west of Texas?
The Mexicans did.
The Americans had their own ranch.
But my uncles were sharecroppers.
How many uncles did you have who worked as farmers?
There were three sharecroppers.
The other uncle was just a picker.
He worked in the labor market.
Several of them.
What was your experience like when you arrived at North Texas University?
And what year did you transfer?
I don’t remember exactly.
I was a senior in ’63 when Kennedy was killed.
I was a student teacher in Grapevine, Texas.
A very racist town.
I remember people applauding when they heard the
news that Kennedy had been killed.
I was already exposed to racism.
In my town, you couldn’t go to restaurants.
You couldn’t go to the fun.
The Mexicans wouldn’t let you in.
I was already used to it.
When I arrived in North Texas, I realized that
there was a good chance of fighting against racism.
Did you have any experiences with discrimination at the university?
With teachers or students?
Not so much.
We were very focused on trying to...
At school, we didn’t have very good teachers.
It was a disadvantage for me.
I didn’t know how to write English very well.
So I struggled to get my grades.
In math and social studies, I did well.
But in English, it was a battle.
All my cousins left.
I was the only one who left.
From high school?
Yes, from high school.
When you arrived at North Texas, were there any
student movements for civil rights?
Or was it too early?
It was too early.
There were problems with African Americans.
There was a movement.
There were several clubs and things like that.
But there was no Chicano movement.
Nor Mexican.
I graduated in 1963.
Did your parents ever join a club that fought for civil rights in West Texas?
My dad was American.
But he was the only one who could speak Spanish.
He was the translator for all the problems of my
uncles and the other Mexican race in the town.
For example, you couldn’t get married in Texas.
At that time, you couldn’t marry an American or a Mexican.
Did your parents serve in the US?
Yes, they had to come here to Las Cruces to get married.
What year did you get married?
I don’t remember.
What was your parents’ name?
My dad’s name was William Glenn.
And your mom?
Her name was Eulalia Dominguez.
Do you remember any stories from when you were a kid
about the problems you had with being an
interracial couple?
There were a lot of problems.
My mom didn’t have the same space.
We mainly associated with Mexican families.
It was curious because in our neighborhood,
almost everyone told us that we were Spanish.
There was a lot of discrimination against Mexicans.
Other families, like Sparks, Bernal, all told us that we were Spanish.
They wanted to get rid of the racism.
The worst racism was against Mexicans.
They used to call us "dirty Mexicans" and " deaners."
I remember when we got to our neighborhood,
a Mexican family came and we were very surprised.
It was very interesting to see how they developed.
Yes, and how they developed their identity to protect themselves from racism.
Can you tell us what percentage of Mexicans are
Anglo-Saxons in the imperialist Poland?
I think it’s about half.
Half and half?
Yes, something like that.
When we were kids, we didn’t know that there were so many.
In school, there were many more.
I would say 20%.
20% Mexicans?
Yes, when we started.
After the beginning, in the 60s, there were a few more.
But in the senior class, there weren’t any.
You told us that you graduated from the University of North Texas in 1963.
What did you do?
I was a teacher in secondary social studies.
When you graduated, did you go to work at a school?
I wanted to go to the Peace Corps, but I couldn’t do that.
I went to the Navajo reservation for two years.
Can you tell us about your experience in the reservation?
In the Navajo reservation, there were two parts.
I worked at the only day school where the Navajos came from the Hogan’s.
The other schools were boarding schools.
It was a tremendous experience.
They were the Navajos that had hidden that Kit Carson didn’t capture.
The Navajos in the Eastern reservation, around Chinle, in the capital,
were the ones that were captured by Kit Carson and were held for a long time.
Where was the reservation?
It was in Tube City, Arizona, in Northern Arizona, near the Grand Canyon.
Okay.
It was a hundred miles to,
a hundred miles to
go to
Flagstaff, Arizona,
for groceries and things like that.
It was a,
a Bureau of Indian Affairs schools.
We made our own electricity.
It was like a compound,
like you lived in a foreign country, right?
(speaking in foreign language)
The principal was white.
The teachers were Chicanos,
European black teachers
in the,
in the Bureau.
The operator of the compound
was Cherokee.
(speaking in foreign language)
Except they were coming
a lot of...
At that time
they use horses and wagons.
It was
(non-speech sound)
when they left the reservation
because many of their older kids went to
Mormon schools in Salt Lake
and other places.
It was very tragic ’cause you see that
the families bringing their kids
in the back of the wagon
and putting them on the bus to go.
It was,
it was a lot of discrimination.
(speaking in foreign language)
Was there any problems?
Well they were, you know.
They were not real big problems,
you might say.
But it’s pretty standard,
it was pretty standard
(speaks in foreign language) you know.
I think, you know we,
we took on a project
to train some Peace Corps volunteers.
You know, they send them there
and that kind of created a,
’cause they brought new,
a new way of teaching and everything.
So we,
we started trying to teach English.
Conversational English instead of the old
type of
just reading a textbook.
And you know,
then there was some problems.
And-- Did you try to,
in your teachings
were you like
told to
like help students assimilate
or, or no?
(speaking in foreign language)
We weren’t as bad as the,
as the boarding schools.
In the boarding schools, you know,
the kids coming out of the neighborhood
at that point in time
they have different ways of eating
and different food and everything.
And,
and they were very afraid.
I had a friend who was in a boarding school,
you know, 30 miles away.
Essentially they,
they had to break the kids to
learn to use the bathroom,
to learn how to eat,
and all these things.
It was,
I think it was very brutal.
But we were,
(non-speech sound)
there was a lot of health problems.
So we kind of concentrated on the health problems.
What were some of the health problems
that the students (coughing drowns out speaker)
In,
in the reservation at that point in time
the had a lot of trachoma.
Which is an eye disease
and the granules form
on the top of the eyelid
and it scratches the cornea eventually
and people can go blind.
So you have to,
in order to treat them
you have to turn the eyelid
and put drops in every minute.
So while we were in school,
we,
we did that.
It’s very contagious to all that.
Some of the teachers got trachoma,
but you could cure it.
And they also had a lot of TB.
So we had to deal with my (indistinct) every morning
to (indistinct) the kids.
And since it was very primitive
and (speaks in foreign language)
a lot of kids, you know,
we, we started taking kids to the health clinic,
or 35 miles away.
And they told us that we couldn’t,
because we were
not only administering the drops
but we were
just helping the kids with, you know,
some of them had sores
and impetigo and stuff
and we were curing all that.
And then they,
the clinic accused of,
of practicing medicine.
So we,
we started sending all the kids over there
and lasted about a week.
And said, "Don’t send us any more people".
You know, so,
there was a lot of discrimination on part of the,
on part of the Bureau.
What were the parents’ reactions to
the involvement of teachers and administrators
with their children.
Well, there wasn’t much
’cause we couldn’t communicate.
And the only,
the only time we really communicated is,
is,
they had a,
you know,
they had a problem with,
with a,
I don’t know I should say (faintly speaking )
with,
with their hair.
Especially the girls,
they had long hair
and one of the teachers decided to,
maybe we should cut their hair.
And the next day,
the whole compound was full of (indistinct )
saying ,
"No, you’re not gonna cut the children’s hair."
So,
that kind of communication,
then you (indistinct)
was going on in the school.
Then we made friends with them
and they studied with the bus drivers.
And we began to go to the squad dances,
talk to some of the people.
So, You were there for two years, correct?
Sorry, what were you going to say.
’Cause I learned, you know,
that neighborhoods
don’t consider themselves
separate from nature
that point in time, right.
So I learned,
they taught me more
than I taught them
about a lot of things.
(non-speech sound)
since,
you know, they don’t,
they consider the animals
and the trees
and everything else.
And they go by the,
at that point in time
they went by the seasons.
(non-speech sound)
one day there was no more kids
or very few kids.
And they said, "Well, where are they?"
(indistinct) picking the pinions,
the pinions.
So they had a,
it was a kind of,
you know, a holiday pinion.
So they,
they taught me all about that.
How you’re not different from them,
that you’re part of nature
and you should, you know,
be grateful that you are,
so.
So you were there from like 63 to 65?
Yeah,
because we did all that health work
we applied for,
applied for
Master’s degree
to do a Masters work in,
in public health education
at the university of North Carolina
in Chapel Hill
and we got accepted.
What were your experiences in Africa like?
It was pretty interesting
to (faintly speaking)
in about a year and a half.
You got a lot of,
we have to do
work out in the community
in public health.
It was a black community service.
It was a very
eye-opening
school.
They taught us,
although it was about education
it was mostly about organizing.
We’ve covered all the organizers
from (indistinct)
(non-speech sound)
the Puerto Rican people,
to (faintly speaking)
everybody who studied organizing
and studied communities.
How to detect (faintly speaking)
well community and the sick community.
And after all that,
and after all the statistics,
that’s why I begin to
open my eyes a little bit
about what was going on.
So when I chose to,
after I got with the masters
when they say well,
’cause we had options as to where to go.
So I had to look into the lower Río Grande Valley
At that time,
the Valley had all the old world diseases.
You know, high infant mortality rates,
endemic TB.
You know, cases of what they call hansen’s disease,
which is leprosy.
But overall the,
the lack of healthcare
(non-speech sound)
migrant workers,
because things did not change
and the valley was a reservation of Chicano.
Mexican families
that had settled out
that travel the,
the migrant stream every year.
They go to pick the oranges in Florida,
they go to New Jersey for tomatoes,
they go to Fremont for,
to pick peppinos
and Michigan for cherries.
And, you know,
you know, that migrant stream,
you shouldn’t know anything (faintly speaking)
So, I got a job
with a health department
to,
to work on the migrant
health.
And,
but, so it was very eye-opening.
When did you get
to the Rio Grande Valley
and how was it eye-opening?
Was because it brought back,
I’d been out of that environment
(non-speech sound)
lower Río Grande Valley at that time
all the families,
all the music,
everything was very much
like had been in my (indistinct)
So I was, you know,
I felt like I was in,
in my own environment.
So, and I spoke English.
Largely the people in the valley at that time
didn’t even speak English.
And the health was,
services were really bad.
The director of the health department
was a (indistinct) retired ( indistinct) general
whose most problem was
where to go hunting,
you know. (both laughing)
So he didn’t care about the migrant program.
And where was the head office
if he would call?
In Caminito In Caminito, okay.
And where did you stay?
What city and what valley were you staying?
Well, I grew up,
I mean, I,
I think I was living in Harlington
at that point in time.
With the big flood
I was there about a month
and then we had Hurricane Beulah.
And my house was totally (faintly speaking )
1967? Yeah.
And,
but it was,
that was
really what
opened my eyes in terms of
also the discrimination against the
Mexican families,
the Chicanos,
(indistinct)
There was no healthcare so we set out to.
I didn’t last too long with the health department.
So I got a,
a job with the
American Friends Service Committee
to work on a
consumer participation in healthcare.
But really we,
we started organizing
for a clinic,
a health clinic to solve the health problems.
Which was the origin of what is called
(speaks in foreign language)
And getting involved with,
there was a Catholic nun
who was a nurse.
(non-speech sound)
at that point in time we developed where is called,
we’d have about 30 communities in the,
in Cameron County.
From Raymondville to Lyford,
to Sebastian,
to San Benito,
and the Colonias
along the river,
you know, to try to get healthcare.
And so that was the big push.
And we finally got it.
After a lot of trauma.
So that’s,
that’s,
the friends
in Texas
the,
the health department was,
the medical society was very racist.
You know like,
that’s why I left the health department
’cause I was working in TB in Brownsville
in a laboratory called (speaks in foreign language)
And we,
we identified all the active TB cases.
You know, through skin tests and stuff,
whatever, you know.
(non-speech sound)
none of the
clinics would read the x-rays.
So we,
we, we finally got a,
a machine.
When we finally got a truck
to come from the health department,
from Austin,
and take the x-rays, you know,
but the radiologists wouldn’t read them
and you know,
so there was all that.
So in order to try to, you know,
so we started protesting.
And so then they called this communist
because we were trying to get healthcare.
At that point in time
I didn’t exactly know,
even know who (indistinct) or ( indistinct) was.
Yet I was branded that way.
It’s the,
and then from (indistinct)
we were,
at that we were very successful.
The organizing
there in Cameron County.
Who were some of the people
that worked alongside you
to get healthcare in Cameron County.
Well, there was a,
the Catholic diocese had a,
a Social,
Social Justice program,
(non-speech sound)
I mentioned my
(speaking in foreign language)
was very involved in.
And some of the priests,
a few of the priests were very involved in,
and this Catholic nun
also,
who was a nurse.
And then just community people,
you know,
from the different reform where it was called,
(speaks in foreign language)
in Cameron County.
And,
and they,
you know, we,
we did a lot of protests
to try and get the healthcare.
This culminated in,
in the opening of the (speaks in foreign language)
Can you tell us about
what were some of the,
the struggles that
you faced
trying to open the clinic
and when it was open if you remember?
Cause you know, the,
the doctors in the Metro state
they were very much against it.
They said there was no need for it.
Yet with all this
health statistics showed that,
you know, that there was a great need.
And we were kicked out of several doctor’s offices
that were,
we were interfering with their business.
That healthcare was their business
and they didn’t want us interfering with it.
So, we finally made some inroads.
(non-speech sound)
American Friends Service Committee
was able to recruit a doctor
from Philadelphia.
But it’s so happens he was a conscientious objector
and,
and he hadn’t gone to
World war 2,
I think one of them.
Anyways, he couldn’t work in Texas.
We had to get a pardon for him.
So, that was a whole other struggle to
try to get that,
try to get him certified.
But after we got that doctor certified
then he was able to bring in young doctors
and some...
After we,
after we,
in order to get
federal money
for our community health center, you know,
it was a real struggle with the,
the community organizations.
(non-speech sound)
we threatened to burn the hospital down,
which was the main hospital in Huntington Valley Baptist.
After that
we got more attention,
you know,
we became more,
after that, you know,
there was people involved from the,
some visitor workers involved.
(non-speech sound)
who were instrumental.
Some of them become very much involved
in the Chicano movement,
like (indistinct) was
ex Vietnam veteran, you know.
And,
and he passed away already
but he was really instrumental in continuing the work.
Yes, you said that
when you went to,
to get your master’s degree,
you said that
you studied political organizing, right?
Correct? Yeah.
But what some of the methods,
or you know,
any of the methods of the day
of organizing did you use to start this clinic?
Well, the,
if you studied all the organizers like Fred welds,
and (indistinct) Murray,
the one who helped Travis,
is a very basic community organization pattern, right.
Form a community group
and you will try to give them as much education.
In the Valley was,
Mexicano were,
were,
in some of the little communities
they were even afraid to assemble
because they were told that it was illegal to assemble.
You know, to form an organization.
So there’s some of that.
Some of the things that we faced,
but we trained a lot,
we had very strong organizations
in these small communities
and is basically
that you had a right
and there was,
to organize yourself.
And,
and then we,
we helped them with the,
the whole question of
setting up an organization, you know,
and train some of the leadership.
But it,
but it was very much
starting from,
from zero.
And in North Carolina,
I learned a lot about the organizations
of how to,
(non-speech sound)
how do identify sick and well communities.
How to do all the
(non-speech sound)
bring to the people.
(speaking in foreign language)
There was a lot of repression
against some of them
from the established
authority in the towns.
What were some of the,
the,
retaliations that the,
you know, the authorities
or other community organizations or members
did against, you know,
people that were organizing for healthcare?
It’s the,
they, you know,
it’s the same.
(speaking in foreign language)
But see,
at that point in time,
they were at,
you had a lot of migrant families
that didn’t depend on working in those communities
’cause they would be going up North.
So,
I think that’s why we were
more successful, right?
’Cause the people had the,
they weren’t tied to,
a lot of them weren’t tied to a job.
A lot of them were (speaks in foreign language )
that worked in the fields.
When they were in,
when they were in the valley,
they would work
in different odd jobs.
What they didn’t have a,
a particular box.
For those that did stay, you know,
who did not go up North.
Can you believe that
the form of,
you know, the political,
you know, the agendas of the cities,
like the bossism.
Do you think that affected their choice
or their actions of not organizing?
Oh, yeah.
Yeah, there was.
After,
I had to two stands in the,
in the Valley, you know.
We also worked in Brownsville,
where we were working more with the workers
(non-speech sound)
instead.
(non-speech sound)
I remember
we got,
we interrupted City Council
when the mayor Edelstein was there.
And it was very reactionary.
And,
we,
at that time,
we were saying that the zoo had better healthcare
than the people, you know.
(non-speech sound)
because they had this,
they had all these doctors come in
to deliver this baby gorilla
and stuff like that.
And there were so,
also a lot of problems in Brownsville
in terms of services
and the
electricity services
and the electric company was,
it was a POB, right.
It was a public electric company
and they were giving free services
to some of the
corporations and stuff like that.
So we created a big scandal
and we went to City Council.
And of course they took us to jail
’cause we interrupted the City Council.
And the next City Council
they took us to jail again.
And they charged us with an,
an old law that says,
instead of just being a misdemeanor
charge, you know,
they charged us with,
they said the city council was,
was tend amount to a,
to a legislative session.
So we could get up to five years in jail.
So,
we did have to go to trial.
When was this trial?
Do you remember when it took place? (laughs )
I could find out.
It was...
What was the result of the trial?
(non-speech sound)
(clears throat)
everybody,
you know like they,
they got all the TVs to get their videos
and shown how we were protesting
and what we were, you know,
stopping the city council and everything.
And also some of the people
protested it, you know.
But when theY interviewed,
when they interviewed
the members of the organization
we were working with in Brownsville
is the,
they all,
they got
really confused
because they had to
have a translator.
And the people were very adamant
when they ask them.
’Cause they were showing the video
to see they’re
aren’t they breaking the law,
aren’t they stopping
and then people would say no,
they are just advocating, you know.
(speaking in foreign language)
Cause we,
we got out of that one.
They declared us not guilty.
Anyways. Yeah.
So you-- Am skipping a little bit.
No, that’s fine.
You were very, very involved in healthcare
but what was some of the other issues
that you were involved in
while you were in the Valley?
(non-speech sound)
after the,
after more or less the clinic got going
and we got a director,
we, we became involved in,
in a,
in a water project
through different workers along the border.
Okay. And that’s, that’s,
there was a project in Brownsville,
and a project in (indistinct)
His project started with this
water project from the American Friends Service Committee.
That me and my (speaks in foreign language )
we kind of (indistinct)
And,
and then we (speaks in foreign language)
It wasn’t called (speaks in foreign language ) then.
(non-speech sound)
we got resources for an organizer here back then.
Do you remember what it was called before?
Oh, what,
what it was called
before it was (speaks in foreign language )
They had already incorporated
central (speaks in foreign language)
Okay.
It’s still that,
but it’s (speaks in foreign language)
So they,
the Browns are a projects where we work.
Didn’t really survive
as much as (indistinct)
(non-speech sound)
in here.
They were still some,
it was a lot tougher
organizing workers
on the offshore rigs
and some of the factories in Brownsville,
and steal workers
instead.
And we got threatened by that.
Got a lot of the workers crossed everyday.
We got threatened by the (speaks in foreign language)
And there wasn’t anything happening in ( indistinct)
I wouldn’t even go to that now.
But it was,
you know, it wasn’t pretty.
I have a (indistinct)
but were pretty militant,
in Brownsville we were
not in a sense, you know,
just in terms of protest and things.
What was that name of the,
of the conglomerated water project?
(indistinct) cities.
(Sandra laughing)
I can’t give it to you specifically
it was just,
it was
sponsored by the American Friends Service Committee
and the Border Development branch.
So you work,
you work with,
with, with them until when in Brownsville?
We’re not gonna go through this whole thing
other wise we’re just gonna talk about ( faintly speaking)
You see, my stories are already too long. ( laughs)
No, it’s okay.
Yeah, so,
so what other activism did you do prior
to coming to El Paso
in, in the Valley?
In the Valley?
Was basically in,
in Brownsville
we were involved in the,
into the,
the whole question,
(non-speech sound)
and the workers
and getting them legal aid
and stuff like that
(non-speech sound)
we had
a lot of
factories.
(speaks in foreign language)
the workers
were getting
maimed and stuff like that.
But also
there was a lot of
work being done on boats and stuff
that was
fiberglass. Okay.
Fiberglass cracks.
And they were very,
they would get a lot of
itches and rashes and stuff,
and we were organizing against that.
But then later we also participated in the,
with Carlos in the,
in the (indistinct) strike,
in the union strike.
Can you tell us a little bit about the--
Well, I was working in the community with,
with the,
what is called
(speaks in foreign language)
It’s the (speaks in foreign language)
(speaking in foreign language)
No, no,
no this is,
that was,
there’s a very big point.
It’s,
and,
and the Texas farm workers were very active
but we were just an organization in Raymondville
and we were working on the,
on the clinic,
we we’re working on the,
the (speaks in foreign language)
you know,
and,
but we were,
the organization (speaks in foreign language)
was very,
they were all campesino,
so they were very involved in the union strike.
Especially, one of the women in women organizers,
Juanita valdez.
She was, you know,
kind of like the head of the,
the effort in the union strike,
part of the effort in the union strike.
What were some of the demands
that the strikers were making?
Well, you know,
that they wanted a contract
for the,
for the Texas farm workers.
And the owner of the field was a Catholic, right.
And,
and the Bishop was very,
he was working with him.
And I think
at least this is the rumor,
that they were almost ready
to sign the contract with the Texas farm workers.
That’s when Auto brand, you know,
with their (indistinct)
came in and bought all the onions.
And then he brought in the national guard
because we would run out the,
we would try to get rid of the (speaks in foreign language)
And then,
and when we went in to run them out,
Esther Juanita, was a very brave person.
You know, we were all standing and shouting in the linings
and she said,
"Well, I’m gonna go remove them physically."
So she started running in,
in the field
to shout at some of the (speaks in foreign language)
And so the Texas Rangers and others
started running after her.
And then we all got in,
and so we all got thrown in jail
in Raymondville.
How many people do you think
were thrown in jail?
It was there about six or seven.
That was a very famous trial
’cause there were a lot,
a lot of the Chicano lawyers
were about six or seven lawyers
One local,
was it (indistinct) San Antonio.
So,
it went on.
It was,
I always thought, you know,
Judge (indistinct)
he was sought of like
this Southern judge.
You know, if you would see my cousin Vinny
you would think you were in that movie.
Our trial was sorta like that
because the,
the judge was,
you know, he wasn’t going along with anything.
And then we had all these lawyers
who were doing their thing.
So,
we finally we were found not guilty.
What about the Hildago County?
Are there
(indistinct) that you participate in,
in Hildago county,
if you did?
There was more of a rivalry with Hildago County.
You know, we were saying,
there’s a lot more developing in,
’cause we we’re working with clinic.
But then,
Hildago had all their Campesinos
that (speaks in foreign language)
I was there
when they were organizing (speaks in foreign language)
you know.
So, that was very,
very, very important organization
you know.
I don’t know if y’all
interviewed, Este Parturo?
Parturo?
Ramirez.
No. And,
and,
he was kinda like the,
at that point in time
one of the directors of (speaks in foreign language)
And then there was the lawyer.
(speaking in foreign language)
He’s State Rep also became a State Rep.
Was it ummm...
He be,
he was one of the
directors of (speaks in foreign language)
at that point in time.
And before we started the interview,
we were just talking.
And you said that you were there
during the (indistinct)
of 1971. Yeah.
So give me,
give us a little detail,
how you got there
and what you saw
and what you experienced?
Well,
you know, there was a lot of
movement in terms of the youth.
There was a
youth projects.
Although, you know,
in the Valley.
And we’d organize the youth group in,
in,
in San Benito
and a group of people in San Benito, you know,
and,
and then we got invited
by,
to this youth conference we were having
in the Methodist camp,
outside of,
outside of (indistinct)
I forget exactly where it was.
Was it Weslaco or--
Yes Weslaco. Weslaco, right.
Yeah, it was south of Weslaco.
It was a youth camp.
So we took the,
you know, we took a,
a van load of youth
and people to that youth project,
to that youth conference, right.
That’s how we got involved.
And then while we were at that youth conference
we got word that,
that,
that Efrain and other people got thrown in jail.
That there was problems in far
with the,
with police brutality.
So what I understand all the,
we all took off and went to (indistinct)
And,
(non-speech sound)
when we got there,
you know, there were DPS troopers,
cars lined,
lining the streets and everything.
And we got there a little bit late.
(non-speech sound)
what I really remember vividly is this
line of troopers walking down the street, you know
and there was,
there was tear gas,
and,
and that’s when we heard the shots, you know.
And after that they said that,
that this young man coming out of the barbershop
had been killed.
And some of the leadership,
they,
they rushed us
into one of the community buildings,
that were there.
People just scattered everywhere after that.
(speaking in foreign language)
I forget what the name of the priest was.
And he said, "Y’all stay in here
and don’t to go out
because you’ll get shot."
So that was,
that was a very
tense situation, you know.
I mean all the youth we,
you know, our group we kind of like rushed
over to where this line was
and all of a sudden we got met
with that line of troopers
and others coming down the street
and they were firing firearms.
And, you know,
it was pretty intense.
And one of the questions I need to,
I want to see if you can clarify.
A lot of,
well, an individual wrote a Masters thesis
about the riot.
And he interviewed Efrain Fernandes.
And he said that
he was in that meeting
with the youth in Weslaco.
That he, that he left
the organizers before the riot started.
Did you,
do you remember seeing Efrain at that meeting?
The student meeting
or the youth meeting that was happening in Weslaco?
Well, there was a lot of the leadership there.
Not to say he’s the one,
in all those people were there.
So I don’t know.
I didn’t exactly.
I couldn’t say for sure Okay.
Because, you know it was,
had it gone on for a while
and we didn’t get that news till later,
about well,
maybe we should all go to
(coughs) to see what’s happening with the police brutality.
And did you follow what happened afterwards
into the trial of Efrain and Armando Alonso?
And what were your thoughts about that?
Well,
other news, you know,
instead,
cause I knew,
I knew the lawyer.
It was really good,
I thought.
I didn’t think Efrain got a really good deal
but he was,
you know, I didn’t follow it as much as,
(non-speech sound)
like some of the people in the (speaks in foreign language)
It wasn’t pretty,
it was a pretty traumatic time.
And like we,
as a,
during that,
during the fire, right.
You know like, we send a whole van to,
to,
back to Cameron County to pick up more people
because we were ready to continue the protest.
You know, we didn’t know what was gonna happen.
You know, some of the,
some of the young people said,
"Well, if they’re using guns against us
how are we gonna defend ourselves?
We should go get our guns."
You know, with that
I don’t think that ever happened at all.
There was a,
a lot of anger
with,
with what was happening.
(non-speech sound)
I stayed
because everybody had a lot of respect for Efrain.
He was one of
a major leaders.
Major, you know,
the youth leaders.
And did you or anybody you know
participated in the,
in the peaceful protest match
that happened from South Juan
all the way to far where
(faintly speaking)
a month afterwards.
It was just a thousand man march.
(non-speech sound)
No?
I should have reviewed some of this stuff
’cause we did go to,
to a couple of the marches,
but I think some of the Brown Berets were involved,
but I don’t know if they were involved with that march.
I don’t think so.
So, do you have anything
that you wanna share about the,
the rallies before we move on to your
coming to El Paso
that we haven’t covered yet?
(speaking in foreign language)
I think the Valley is a lot different
being in,
being a border
on the border,
but it’s different from El Paso.
How so?
In terms of
the people
and sort of like the customs,
and even some of the foods.
And here the more urban environment.
In the Valley,
even if you’re able to,
in Brownsville,
you’re still living in that rural area, kinda,
you know,
(non-speech sound)
it’s changed a lot.
You know, I haven’t been there in a long time.
So, I mean,
they say has become a lot more urban
(non-speech sound)
it’s,
you know, it’s quite,
quite different.
I think,
I think that
one of the activity was going on like
(non-speech sound)
church in society,
priest,
there was a priest called, father Pena.
He did a lot of,
of work with the Chicanos and stuff.
And I know we worked on,
worked on,
one of the first
we got one of the first water projects
for the Colonias.
You know, we were working on the Colonias,
you know, way back then.
And,
but they didn’t really become popular, you know.
Until later, you know,
when all that water systems.
We got one of the first FHA water systems
(non-speech sound)
it was South of Fargason
(faintly speaking)
But I think that,
I think the struggle in the Valley
like with Russell Nita, you know,
it was...
I struggled because of the conditions
that existed in the Valley
in terms of education.
You know, the migrant workers
were not getting,
the children of the migrant workers
were not getting
that kind of,
the kind of the same education
because they would leave, right?
They would leave in,
in April or May
and then they wouldn’t come back till October.
And some of the schools were organized that way.
You know, that they wouldn’t open until October.
But then,
you know, that really was a messed up
kind of system.
I have two questions.
One, when did you leave the Valley,
what year?
And what do you,
what is the difference between a
(faintly speaking)
Now that were gonna be transport
from the valley to the (faintly speaking)
What is the difference between those two?
A (faintly speaking)
Oh, but it’s mostly the
urbanization, you know.
You know, like I worked in the (speaks in foreign language)
in the housing thing here.
But it was,
a Colonia is a lot more
rural.
Where there also
is the lack of services and everything.
Most of the (indistinct)
like when the (indistinct)
they had problems with water too
because you would have one line of tenements, you
know. apartments on top with no water, right.
They didn’t have running water
or they didn’t have any kind of...
But the Colonias were
really,
it was a totally
it was a different environment, you know?
I don’t know how else you would describe it.
Oh no, that’s fine,
that was just for context.
You know, people who don’t know the differences
or they think that they’re the same thing.
And what year did you leave the Valley to come to El Paso?
And when?
I didn’t get to,
I didn’t get to El Paso
till 73.
I left the Valley about 70, 72,
but I actually went on a migrant stream
and to
kind of see,
well, where were all the people going?
So...
How was that experience
getting to see it yourself?
No, that was
very umm,
you know, at that point in time
I didn’t have a job
but I did have a truck
with a camper.
So,
went from,
from the Valley to
Pueblo, Colorado,
and pick
onions and radishes.
Whether Italiano’s,
you know, the Italiano’s have a big deal
in Pueblo, Colorado,
they provide a lot of
the fruit.
And then from there to
Fort Lupton
to work for the,
for the,
a big
packing shed.
We’d pack trucks with
a lot of carrots and onions and stuff.
And a lot of the people there were from Juarez, you know.
They had gone up to Port Lambton
And then from there went up to
Ohio or,
is it Ohio?
Yeah.
To,
to pick
peppinos.
And,
and the migrants all lived.
and, you know,
you went through the Toledo, Ohio.
They had a big migrant camp there.
We stayed there for a while
and,
and then we finally got
a rancher
and he gave us a,
a little bit of housing.
It wasn’t much
but it was
a room
and they had a bed and stuff, you know.
And we were picking
peppinos.
we got $40 for a whole box.
You know, we were using one of these huge boxes.
I think it holds about a ton or something like that.
And it was a,
quite a,
quite a hard job
’cause you had to go out there and pick
even if it was wet and the mud and everything.
’Cause you couldn’t let the cucumbers get,
they weren’t the small, you know.
If you had them get yellow,
then your out business.
And they’d give you a ten rows,
like they gave me 10 rows.
I was to take care of those 10 rows
and make sure that,
(non-speech sound)
all the peppinos got picked
before they got too big.
That was
pretty tough job.
Who did you go with to?
With some other,
with a migrant family
that was
from San Benito area.
And that’s why I was able to
also get in,
get involved in there.
But I came back,
I came back and that’s when I,
I spent some time with my family in Odessa.
Dad moved,
Dad moved to Odessa from
the rural areas
because the New Mexico people
down the Pecos river
and we couldn’t get any more water
to plant cotton,
you know.
So, all the,
the Lingus family moved
to all the (faintly speaking)
to the more urban areas.
What brought you,
oh, sorry.
Well, you know,
when I was,
while I was in,
I was looking around for a health job
and I,
I ran across
this job that was opening with (speaks in foreign language)
in El Paso.
and that’s what I came here.
I applied for the job
and,
and actually got it.
So you came in 1973
to (indistinct)
And where did you settle
and how did you see El Paso being so different
from the Valley
and other areas that you had previously lived in?
Well, it’s pretty different,
a lot different.
In one sense, you know,
there was a lotta
tense there.
El Paso was really tense at that point in time.
The,
the local youth organizations, for instance,
Maya,
run the,
they had this whole protest
against the media
and against
representative quiet.
And they were very,
they were very active, you know.
So,
I had,
I had a good teacher though,
on the LFA board with
Este Pete Duarte.
And he helped
(non-speech sound)
get introduced into the community.
Because lafayette was a very
basic community project, you know.
The community people were very much in charge.
with community organizers
from the (speaks in foreign language) who had,
who had
developed the project
and started the volunteer clinic, you know.
Pete, tell us about the history of,
of lafayette from what you know
and your perspective.
Well, it started,
you know,
the same thing as,
as in the Valley.
And it was a panic that there was
a real lack of healthcare.
And there was a,
there was a,
an accident.
I think at (speaks in foreign language)
or somewhere,
or in that area,
in that,
in that neighborhood.
And, and there was no healthcare.
They had really hard time
even getting any emergency healthcare.
And so the people became very angry.
That’s what I understand.
And that’s where the organizations--
Was it, what kind of a
accident was it?
Was it
where the kid swimming?
No, it was,
it was
some girl
had fell and cut herself with glass and stuff.
So,
but Senor Friaz,
I don’t know how to give you his number,
but he has,
he was working in the community at that time
and with the people who originated the clinic
and,
and he worked in it.
I,
when I came in as director
I hired mostly the community people
who had been working on it as,
as outreach people or organizers.
Who were some of the people
that you hired for the board?
Well, I hired him as a staff, you know.
Oh, so Friaz?
Yeah, Senor Friaz.
Nina Corvera was a,
a prominent community organizer.
I even,
eventually I even hired Salvardor Barkote
who’s now the director of the clinic,
when he was a young person.
I forget who some of the
other young people
and others,
they were working for the clinic.
(non-speech sound)
it was,
it was pretty,
it was pretty difficult.
With the, you know,
the same thing as it happened
in the lower Rio Grande Valley.
The medical society here
was very much against the clinic
getting (indistinct) Dr Gardea, you know,
who’s now passed away.
And some of the other doctors
that were volunteering for the clinic
(non-speech sound)
before I got there.
(non-speech sound)
I was basically hired to implement
a program that they’d already gotten
(non-speech sound)
Federal Community Health Centers.
It was supposed to be a prepaid program
to develop a clinic
and develop a clientele and et cetera, you know.
But we couldn’t get any doctors.
So,
I met,
I started working with this Methodist minister,
Conquel Martinez,
to try to get him to get
the doctor at,
at New York hospital.
(non-speech sound)
New York hospital at that time
was the one who was providing healthcare
to the (speaking in foreign language)
and healthcare to a lot of,
a lot of the Chicanos were born
in New York,
New York hospital, you now.
So,
Huel and I were able to convince
Dr Corita,
to be the first
(non-speech sound)
for the clinic.
And we were able to acquire a building,
the old Mormon church.
And,
and the clinic got started, you know.
(non-speech sound)
I became
enchanted with,
I say enchanted.
I became the,
the young people kind of convinced me that,
that we needed to do
is to work with the community.
So,
I felt the clinic was in very much,
had gotten going
with then all the,
all the work to
break the ice with the medical society.
And we had all the agreements to forward to,
to get started.
So,
I resigned, you know.
And we had,
we had,
before I resigned,
of course I,
we hired this person who had
all kinds,
supposedly all kinds of experience in California
with clinics and everything.
And,
and so there at that point in time
I left and started working in (indistinct )
as a,
as a social worker.
Oh,
so, this person that you hired,
if you want to
can you share the name or you don’t want to.
I can’t even remember,
the name was Huellas,
Senor Huellas. Okay.
Was,
was he part of
when lafayette was taken over?
I think it was like in the late seventies, correct?
Do you remember anything about that?
Before we moved on,
we move on from Lafayette?
I thought that, you know,
the Senor Huellas showed me all these proposals
he had written
and everything
and I thought he was really on top of the whole situation.
The board seemed to be happy with him.
We had a good board for the clinic.
So I didn’t feel bad in leaving,
(non-speech sound)
I,
you know, I went through work and I say,
when the (indistinct) in terms of the housing situation
and things,
and,
but I wasn’t here when the clinic started coming apart.
And they had all the protest
and I,
I had already left
and gone to
San Antonio
to work on what was called a
(speaks in foreign language)
Which was clinics all the way from
from San Luis, Colorado.
Where the (indistinct) starts
all the way to Brownsville.
And so,
we were helping to develop clinics along that,
along the border area.
But before I,
before I went to San Antonio
’cause I worked very much in
one of the (indistinct)
and other people in,
in getting,
actually one of the,
one of the Mayan youth,
Kim and I went to
the city to
try to get a permit
to redo a,
an Adobe building
for a,
for a project
in the,
in the community.
And the inspector told us, you know,
we’re not gonna give you your permit.
And we’re going to tear down all those things.
And that’s how we found out that they had plans to
tear down the (speaks in foreign language ).
So, there was a fire,
a tenement fire,
I believe in 1973.
Where some children are killed.
And this is the second fire that, you know,
is not related to an earlier one in the sixties.
But the (indistinct) is
accredited to begin
the tenement eradication project or program here
well, in (speaks in foreign language)
(non-speech sound)
the city decides,
demolishing many tenements
and outing a lot of families from (indistinct )
Were you (speaks in foreign language)
comes together.
Were you around for
when the people
or the city was demolishing buildings?
And,
and around the-- Oh, yeah.
But I,
I never did.
We never didn’t.
There were,
there was an explosion in one of the ( indistinct) in,
on Easter Sunday,
you know,
that,
that kind of like got people
really upset
and stuff
in protesting,
but the (speaks in foreign language) kind of like,
it already,
had,
had already begun,
okay, you know.
Were you part of,
of (speaks in foreign language)
Yeah.
Can you tell us about
what (speaks in foreign language) was
and,
and how you became involved in it?
Oh, can I stop recording so
Yeah, okay.