-: When you decided on China,
did you know anything about China?
Did you sort of begin learning about China
or did it all happen kind of gradually?
-: We had friends that were already adopting from China
that were going through the process
and we talked to them as well as, well like I said,
we were looking into different countries.
We talked to two or three agencies before we made
the decision to actually go through China.
And then, like I say, because of our friends
adopting from there also, we had, did have a support group
that way to kind of go through and, you know,
we're still friends with them now,
as well as they've also adopted and now we have.
But it just the fit,
just the way the program worked,
seemed to work better for our family.
-: I see.
-: We felt like she said the support group that
we had followed, other families that have gone through
the adoption process through China was just much easier
for us to grasp.
Some did go through different agencies than what we did,
but yet we still had lots of support and, you know,
just great question, you know,
and Q-and-A time to ask 'em anything and everything,
and really understand everything before we embarked on our,
our two adoptions from China.
-: And you guys use Great Wall.
-: Yes, in both adoptions.
We did use Great Wall out of Austin.
-: What about the process was surprising?
-: Our first adoption went very, very quickly.
We actually turned, or our paperwork was logged in,
in China in July of...
2003.
And we traveled to adopt our oldest daughter in May of 2004.
So it went very, very quickly.
And with our second daughter,
our paperwork was logged in December 2005?
And we did not travel until March of 2008 to go get her.
And so that for us was somewhat frustrating
in the time that it did take,
but I can't imagine another child other than Juliann being
in our family so it worked out.
-: What was that wait like that, that almost three year wait?
How did you manage that?
-: A little bit of apprehension and misunderstanding of why
they're taking so much longer the second time
versus the first time.
You know, we were glad the first one went quickly,
but we didn't understand why
it was going so slow the second time.
And we just, through our support group just kept, you know,
kept the pace that we're going and just buckled down
and thought, "okay, it's meant for a time.
And this is our time to wait."
And it, it happened as is.
And that's, that's kinda how it was.
-: I think it helped too,
is that we already had our older daughter and the time,
even though it was a long time,
it was quicker for us than like those that didn't have,
already have a child that were waiting that long.
We had something to, I guess,
occupy our minds rather than worrying
about the wait as much.
But it did seem like a long time.
And especially when you're telling your younger child,
"Oh, we're going to go get sister."
"Yeah, mom, when are we going?" (laughs)
-: "Is sister real or are you
just like making sister up?" Right?
What was it like to travel to China,
to adopt Juliann with Jencie?
You had a five-year-old with you.
It's a different experience,
I think when you have an older sibling,
who's still a young kid on a big trip.
-: It didn't start out quite well on the plane.
We had electronics ready to go and such,
and as we got in the air about two hours,
a cup of water spilled on the electronics.
And we were out of our comfort zone because we had videos
lined up to play and watch on the 13, 14 hour flight.
And we thought, "what are we going to do now?"
However, we had flown in big airplanes.
So you walk around a lot.
And fortunately, when we did get to China
and dried out the electronics, everything was fine.
And we were able to go with our plans.
And so it was, after that everything went very well.
I think the biggest thing was coming back with,
from China the first time with our oldest, Jencie.
We go over as a, as a couple come back as parents.
And how are you going to entertain a little child now
for 14 hours on an airplane, that you've just received?
And so we made the best of it and everything went well.
It was something that you it's hard to explain totally.
But to experience it was, was a great, great blessing.
-: How old was Jencie and what province was she from?
-: Whenever we adopted her, she was 14 months old.
She is from the Hubei province.
We actually received her in the city of Wuhan,
but she is actually from Yingcheng.
And they said pretty much told us at that time,
we weren't allowed to go to the orphanage where she was at,
because it was too far of a drive to go.
As well as the roads were not in conditions where
we would be able to go get her.
Or go to her orphanage.
And so we just received her in Wuhan and then did,
you know, certain things there and whatnot, but yeah,
she was already 14 months old whenever we received her.
-: Was it disappointing not to be able
to go to the orphanage?
Was that something you had really wanted to do?
-: It's something that we had talked about,
but we also thought it might be confusing to her if she
would have returned with us.
And so it wasn't, it wasn't something that we dwelled on.
It was just, "okay, we can't go that's okay."
They did provide us some pictures and things like that
from the area there.
So we do at least have that for her
to show her as she gets older.
-: And then how old was Juliann
and what province is she from?
-: She is from the Guangdong province.
She is from Maoming.
I know that there's two orphanages in Maoming.
I'm trying to remember the name of her, her actual,
it's not the main one.
There's a different one that is there in Maoming
which is where she's from.
She was 11 months old whenever we received her.
But while we were still in China, she did turn a year old.
And so we were able to take and celebrate her birthday
with our friends that we had all traveled with.
And we celebrated as a family for her birthday.
It was really nice.
-: That's great.
You had a first birthday party for her.
-: Yes.
-: And your, your parents traveled with you guys, right?
-: When we, when we went to adopt Jencie,
my husband's parents traveled with us.
And then whenever we traveled to go get Juliann,
my parents traveled with us.
-: And how did, how did they do with the trip?
Bringing the grandparents?
Was it exhausting for them? Did they enjoy it?
-: I think they all enjoyed it.
I think it was especially the second trip.
The first trip to go adopt Juliann-I'm sorry,
to adopt Jencie was only two weeks.
And so it was kind of, we were there, we kept moving.
It was busy and then it was time to come home.
With Juliann, it was a little bit more of an extended stay
because it was for three weeks
and it made all of us very tired.
So we all came home exhausted. (laughs)
-: What did you do for,
how long were you in Guangdong province?
You were in Beijing in the beginning, right?
Like three days. -: Yes.
-: And then you're in Guangdong province.
So what were you there for, probably two and a half weeks?
-: Yes.
-: And you flew in on March 23rd, you received the child,
your child on March 24th, right?
-: Yes.
-: So then what do you do? Like what do you do for two weeks?
-: Well, we were able to go to different areas
there in Guangzhou.
There was some parks,
there were places we could go and walk around.
There was different things that you could go
see there on the island.
We did shopping, we went to different markets.
We were just able to see some of the day to day life,
as well as seeing some of the sites around the area.
-: Being that we went to, we were in Guangzhou
the second time and we stayed the exact same spot.
We knew exactly what to expect as far as surroundings.
Some had changed over the years, yes.
But we still found places to go and things to do.
And just, and it was kinda sorta like a home,
because we knew what to expect.
We weren't in a totally different part
of Guangzhou at that time.
-: So you were like back at the White Swan, your old home?
Your old four-star home?
-: Yes.
We at least knew where some of the shops should be.
Some of the things that we could go do, you know,
different areas we could walk to.
And it was very comfortable the second time around.
-: Tell me about how each of the girls did
as you brought them home and they began to adjust.
What were your, what went smoothly and what was
your greatest challenge with each of them?
-: With Jencie whenever we first adopted her,
she was... very headstrong, which is good.
She was very independent and like to take and watch us
with what we did.
She very much was an observer.
She connected very well with Anthony,
whenever we first adopted her.
And I mean, she bonded with me as well,
but it was different.
So even after we came home with her,
after we had been home for a few months,
we started a mommy-and-me dance class together.
So that in a way she had to deal with me
and it very much has brought us closer together.
After we had been home with her
for about a year and a half to two years,
she became more of a mama's girl versus a daddy's girl,
but you can definitely tell she's bonded completely
with both of us.
-: And, and to add to, with Jencie,
we understood that while she was in the orphanage
and also in a foster care that she was taken care of
by a male caretaker.
So that led to, you know, my fortune of getting
all the attention in the beginning,
I guess you could say, from me,
and her bonding to me so quickly.
-: So how long was she in the orphanage
and how long was she in foster care, do you know?
-: For the most part,
we think most of the time that she was there,
she was actually in foster care.
I'm not sure how long she actually spent at the orphanage
before they brought her to us for adoption.
But I do know, you know,
even whenever they brought her into us,
there was a male that was carrying her.
But like I said, she,
she actually transferred over really well.
I mean, it, more than anything she did,
she just kind of wanted to watch.
And you could tell there was a book of pictures
that we had sent her as kinda like a care package,
you know, before we traveled.
And her favorite thing was to go through that picture book
and she would sit in my lap,
she would take my finger and she would point to each person
and wait for me to tell her that person's name
before she would move on to the next person.
So it was really neat to be able to do that with her.
-: Do you know anything about her foster family?
-: No, we don't. We weren't given any information.
-: How about Juliann? How'd she do?
What was that like?
-: She was awesome.
Not that Jencie wasn't,
they're both awesome in their separate ways.
Juliann very much is bonded to both of us,
has been from the very beginning.
She's much more quiet than what Jencie is.
Much more, in a way compliant.
She is very sweet, very loving.
She has been from the beginning.
She doesn't...
I mean all kids have their moments, but she,
for the most part, she doesn't cry a whole lot.
She, even in the beginning, she didn't.
And you could just tell, she just wanted to be loved on.
She was actually part of
the "Love Without Boundaries" program.
And you could definitely tell she had been loved on
and loved to be loved on,
and loved the hugs and the kisses and the playing time.
And she really loved having her big sister around
and she loved having both of us around.
So it was really neat to see her bonding process
with the three of us as we were in China,
as well as once we came home with her.
-: And since you've been home,
tell me about kind of both of their lives.
Have you done anything particular
to keep Chinese culture in their lives?
What's your view of how much you can...
really instill that in the girls and how much of it is maybe
not possible because they're growing up
in the United States?
They don't remember China, unless your kids have memories.
Maybe they do remember,
but it's very young to have any memory.
So kind of, what's your take on how much
of Chinese culture you can manage realistically,
what's your feeling about that?
-: Well, unfortunately we don't live in an area
where there's a lot of opportunities for us
to further knowledge of China.
We do try to read books with the girls.
One about Chinese adoption.
They are interested in those books.
And I do try to offer those to the girls
and keep them at the house.
As well as anytime they can try to learn about China.
We do try to do that.
Like I say, unfortunately, there's not a lot
of opportunities in the area where we live.
We do also have a very large support group of about
six or seven families that we get together with very often,
as well as with Juliann's travel group.
We're a little more spread out with that,
but we do try to get together a few times a year,
as well as with our, (coughs) excuse me, what I call our,
our support group or playgroup as we call it,
there's about five or six like I said, families.
And we try to get together periodically
and they all have children adopted from China.
And so we try to get them together to celebrate things
like Chinese new year or our "gotcha days."
Like when the children were adopted.
Different things like that.
In fact, my oldest daughter, one of her best friends
is actually in that playgroup.
-: Do they, where are they both on the sort of journey
of asking about birth family, birth parents, do they ask?
And if they do, how do you talk to them about it?
-: We're very open. We're very open with them.
Like I say, I do take and bring in and as,
and as they've grown up, but I keep it age appropriate.
I keep bringing in books to let them know,
"Hey, it's okay to come talk to us anytime
you want to about your adoption.
We'll be glad to go over pictures with you.
We'll tell you whatever stories we know.
We'll tell you anything we know."
It's always been very open with them and they
know they can come and talk to us anytime they want to.
Juliann hasn't asked too many questions as of yet.
She will occasionally ask every once in a while.
Jencie has asked, my older daughter she will ask more often.
But even lately, I mean and one of the things they both want
to do is to go back to China to, to visit.
But it's not something that she even asks about a lot,
but she knows she's adopted.
She knows, you know, because of that,
there's certain things that we can't tell her.
-: We don't, we don't know the whole story,
just what we know.
And that's how we have to be honest with them,
"this is what we know."
To research, we don't know where we would start for,
you know, to do that.
The answers could be out there, but we'll wait,
you know, once they're older,
if they want to pursue that and we'll help them the best
we can to pursue that if they want those answers.
-: And they both seem pretty much at, at ease about it all?
-: Yes. -: Yes they do.
-: Jencie gets, I think frustrated occasionally
because she feels like
sometimes in movies and different things
that Chinese people are portrayed in certain ways.
And she doesn't necessarily agree with it.
That's something that's come up,
I would say in the last year or two.
Sometimes she questions that and you know,
we try to talk about it and, you know, you know,
"look, you know, it could be this way.
It could be this way."
You know, we try to talk about the different scenarios,
but she, you know, even like at school and things like that,
they haven't really had any problems.
Their school does have several ethnicities in it,
and so it hasn't really become a problem with that.
But like I said, they seem pretty well adjusted.
-: I think it's interesting.
So Jencie's developing kind of a consciousness about being
a Chinese-American person and whether or not
she feels people are portrayed fairly in the media.
That's, I think that's pretty interesting.
Do you remember what movie it was
that she was concerned about?
-: Watching recently..
there was something we were watching recently and I forget
even what the movie was or anything.
And she says, "Oh, well, they portrayed it this way."
And I'm like, "well, but it wasn't, wouldn't have to be,"
you know, when we had to talk about the different scenarios,
but I can't remember specifically what it was.
-: Did you have to deal with any remarks or comments
or intrusive questions generally
or within your groups
or families or just from strangers
over the years with the girls?
And if so, how have you handled that?
-: A lot of times,
especially I would notice it more whenever the kids were
younger, people would look at us like, "what? what?"
And it was like,
we just wouldn't pay it any much attention or whatever.
If someone would come up and ask a question,
we would just kind of, depending upon who they were,
if it was something that somebody we knew,
we might give more of an explanation.
If it was a stranger,
we would gloss over it and move on.
I remember specifically a...
Something that happened in a, at a Sam's grocery store,
whenever Jencie was little.
And I had her in the basket with me and we were going along
and they had some samples of some fruit
we had stopped to get.
And this guy looks at me and he looks at her
and he looks at me and he looks at her,
and he looks back at me.
He says, "that's your baby?"
And I said, "yep, sure is."
And I just walked off! (laughs)
-: Before he started asking any other questions, right?
-: You mentioned our groups that we had
the most support from and all that.
It wasn't necessarily them asking us questions.
It was us asking them questions about the process
and everything and how they, how to help us along.
There was never any, as you would say "stigma,"
you know that, "Hey, you're adopting a Chinese baby."
You know, "what's wrong with this picture?"
And, you know, even I think...
the concept is growing much greater publicity
over the years since we've adopted ours,
because we do see other folks that we don't know.
And we see they have adopted, you know,
they have a little Chinese baby,
and we know that they've adopted as well.
And, you know, we might make, you know,
maybe smile or make a comment that,
you know, "nice baby" or something like that,
but we know what they've gone through.
So there's no need to harp on it, as you would say.
And, and lots of folks, you know, they,
they seem very appreciative of it now, nowadays.
It's something good.
-: Yeah, we've never experienced any negativity towards it.
At least in the areas where we've been with our,
with our kiddos.
-: So is there anything that you think people
should know about the experience that you've had,
that you'd like people to know?
That you want to put out there into the universe?
-: Just be accepting of others,
no matter what their situation is.
-: I believe that's, that sums up the best, yes.
-: Great, well, Mary Ann and Anthony,
I have really enjoyed talking with you.