[Lesley Williams Brunet] You were talking about your wife when he first got here?
[James Olson] Yeah. We were very poor.
She owned small amount of money.
I didn't have a decent suit to wear.
I think it was in
near 1960.
She saved enough money to buy me
a very nice suit on Sacco bits.
That day, and during the Berliner award,
I wore that suit.
I made tribute to my wife,
how she helped me to get financially, and all this.
I say I compliment myself,
I haven't outgrown the size.
(noise) Dr. Hickey was there, the Vice President.
He went home to talk to his wife,
Ms. Hickey, who is an artist of sculptures.
It's only T Shehu can
do that without outgrowing the size.
You couldn't. (laughing)
[Lesley Williams Brunet] I couldn't. (laughing)
[James Olson] It was fun.
[Lesley Williams Brunet] Is that because you're giving away
the candy pairs rather than eating.
No, it's my body.
My father was fat.
My mother was thin,
whether this has anything inherited, I don't know.
I don't have any limitation for my eating (inaudible)
But there's still time. (laughing).
[James Olson] It's a blessing. Actually, my wife
got more fatter than I,
but she had a heart attack, that's the problem.
We both over 80.
I had good life and not during the Japanese invasion,
World War II in China.
But after I came here,
I think my life was improved step
by step until my retirement.
I was forced to retire according to state law.
Some 70 years old.
I was born in 1917,
at 1987, it was a mandatory retirement.
Dr. Laredo asked me whether I wan't to continue,
I said I should continue.
He said I'll give you three years, anything you want,
your salary or your operation,
your technicians, and all this.
After that, you have to scrape up money for yourself.
[Lesley Williams Brunet] Did that happen?
After three years you were (crosstalk).
[James Olson] Yeah. You're right.
[Lesley Williams Brunet] (noise) You're on grant funds now?
[James Olson] No. I got from various donors.
Dr. Waun Hong,
Dr. Spits, some other people.
[Lesley Williams Brunet] What was the first name, Dr. Waun?
[James Olson] Waun? W-A-U-N. I think.
K-I-O-H-O-N-T, he's a big shot.
[Lesley Williams Brunet] It's Just that for the transcriber.
It helps to spell the names.
[James Olson] Dr. Spits. They helped me.
[Lesley Williams Brunet] I think I even saw in the early 80s
you were something about a term appointment.
Offered you a seven-year term appointment,
I guess it was Dr. Fiedler and
you turn it down and just said renew
me year-to-year. Do you remember that?
[James Olson] That I don't recall. No,
Dr. Fiedler, that time I was the department head.
We moved here. Then Dr. Fiedler as department head.
I was a member of his department, not head anymore.
[Lesley Williams Brunet] Because you were actually Chairman of
Cell Biology after David Anderson?
[James Olson] I think so because that time was commotion
administratively because I moved here.
This was a food manufacturer.
I came in, Dr. Painter told me about this.
He said, "Take a look."
He was so nice to me.
He said, "Don, take a look
and we're going to take tear down
everything that Dr. Clark made for this food factory,
I'm responsible, you choose,
you tell me which room you want."
I took a few of my colleagues come in here.
It was incredible.
They had a machine
that can make 10,000 hamburgers an hour,
and all that kind of thing.
We looked at this place.
I told Dr. Panda,
I like to have the vegetable room and the meat rooms.
(laughing) This is about the vegetable room (laughing)
[Lesley Williams Brunet] Put the vessel room in the meat room.
[James Olson] (laughing) He said you got it.
He was so nice to me anyway,
because that was before
anybody else knew of all this food factory.
[Lesley Williams Brunet] Then Dr. Fiedler then became Chairman.
[James Olson] He became chairman because
I was approaching retirement anyway age.
He was very nice to me.
As long as you want stay on. So I stay on.
Yes, we started.
I still have a large,
large number of cells preserved live.
There was a lady by the name of Raitha Caileu.
[Lesley Williams Brunet] Raitha?
[James Olson] Yeah, Raitha Caileu, C-A-I-L-E-U.
French name. She was about this tall, very short.
She was feisty woman.
She established a lot of breast cancer patients.
[T. C. (Tao-Chiuh) Hsu] I think we have the largest
collection of
human breast cancer cells in our pocession.
The largest collection of all world primates,
monkeys and all those gorillas, and all that.
I don't know how to handle this right know.
Lesley Williams [Brunet] Who uses it?
[T. C. (Tao-Chiuh) Hsu] Why?
[Lesley Williams Brunet] Who uses the cell bank,
just Anderson departments? The people now, researchers?
[T. C. (Tao-Chiuh) Hsu] Within the institute, anybody wants it, we'll give him.
But now there is a problem because when
you give cell line to other people,
the regulation is pretty strict.
You have to follow all of these.
As I understand it is for a pattern in all these.
[Lesley Williams Brunet] Okay. Even within the institution or?
[T. C. (Tao-Chiuh) Hsu] No, within the institution and you have no problem.
A lot of people will say what they want.
"I would like to have some cell line from you."
I can't directly send to them.
[Lesley Williams Brunet] Okay.
[T. C. (Tao-Chiuh) Hsu] Because they have all kinds of paperwork and all this.
Before, I sent cell line to anybody.
They want, I sent them.
But now there are a lot of restrictions.
[Lesley Williams Brunet] Just to backup a little bit.
For awhile, did
you work out at the Herman Professional Building?
[T. C. (Tao-Chiuh) Hsu] Yes.
[Lesley Williams Brunet] Okay.
[T. C. (Tao-Chiuh) Hsu] Yes. It was in the garage.
[Lesley Williams Brunet] Right, in the garage. They moved
a lot of biology over there.
Looking for my note in here. But not
like genetics and virology,
they didn't move over there?
[T. C. (Tao-Chiuh) Hsu] That's correct. There was
another department that moved
either pathology or something,
I forgot. Also in there.
Lesley Williams [Brunet] In there?
[T. C. (Tao-Chiuh) Hsu] Yeah.
[Lesley Williams Brunet] Was it difficult to work there?
[T. C. (Tao-Chiuh) Hsu] No.
[Lesley Williams Brunet] So far from the main institution, it didn't?
(FOREIGN) Sort of substandard?
[T. C. (Tao-Chiuh) Hsu] We are our own unit.
If we have meetings,
so we'll just go there.
Lesley Williams [Brunet] Go there.
[T. C. (Tao-Chiuh) Hsu] That time, I already started a lot of cell lines.
I remember once a guy
from Texas Department of Wildlife called me.
He said, "Dr. Tao-Chiuh,
do you want some tissue from a red wolf?"
Well, red wolf or red?
Anyway, when I reach there,
I say yes, I do.
He said, "I am in Houston.
I have trapped a red wolf."
[Lesley Williams Brunet] Come get your cell?
[T. C. (Tao-Chiuh) Hsu] I'll come to see you with that wolf.
[Lesley Williams Brunet] With the live wolf?
[T. C. (Tao-Chiuh) Hsu] Live Wolf. He came in.
The legs were tied up,
mouths were tied up.
Here he is, and he put them around his neck,
huge thing and he held it there.
[Lesley Williams Brunet] Like a collar thing?
[T. C. (Tao-Chiuh) Hsu] Like a collar (laughing). We had animal room in
the garage and we put them,
and took little skin tissue and thanked him.
Then he took, he said, "I'm going to put him
in a proper place. We don't kill him."
[Lesley Williams Brunet] How did they even know that you were looking for?
[T. C. (Tao-Chiuh) Hsu] Somebody know I was interested in all kinds of animals.
[Lesley Williams Brunet] Now, is this the frozen zoo?
Is that the frozen zoo?
[T. C. (Tao-Chiuh) Hsu] No.
[Lesley Williams Brunet] Is it the living?
[T. C. (Tao-Chiuh) Hsu] Frozen zoo is derivative of that.
[Lesley Williams Brunet] Okay.
[T. C. (Tao-Chiuh) Hsu] I used to go to the zoo all the time.
[Lesley Williams Brunet] I think it's time to tell the story of Shirley.
[T. C. (Tao-Chiuh) Hsu] Shirley?
[Lesley Williams Brunet] Shirley the squirrel? (laughing)
[T. C. (Tao-Chiuh) Hsu] Yeah.
[Lesley Williams Brunet] It is important story
, a lot of people have mentioned it.
[T. C. (Tao-Chiuh) Hsu] It was a Mendel. That one also was in the Herman garage.
He, Mendel, me and a graduate student we went to lunch.
When we got back,
he was driving and
we saw oncoming car.
We already passed it.
No, we didn't pass a car coming,
and two squirrels,
one tried to cross the street.
The male jumped over.
The female, hit the car and then fell on the street.
Dr. Mendel, said, "Stop.
I want to have this squirrel.
I don't know whether he or she died or not.
But if she died, I still can take tissues."
He stopped and found out it was a female.
She was completely senseless.
Now, we just left it on the car floor.
We went back to the Herman garage.
Just at that time,
the squirrel woke up and she jumped out of the window.
Just touched Mendel's big nose (laughing).
(inaudible), he was so panicked.
Lesley Williams [Brunet] (laughing).
[T. C. (Tao-Chiuh) Hsu] I told this student,
"Follow him and I'll go get net."
There were two stores down.
The squirrel was at the corner of the final store.
I got him my net and curb her,
and kept in my animal room.
In fact, it cost me $80 to build a cage big one,
and named her Shirley.
When we move back,
I had an animal room.
We moved the cage back too,
and Shirley was there.
We put some wood shavings underneath.
Everybody when they carry lunch,
having something that even a piece of bread or whatever,
they'll go to Shirley's cage and so (inaudible).
She got enough to eat vegetables,
fruits and cakes and all this.
That was Shirley. She died many years later.
[Lesley Williams Brunet] She lived in the animal room all that time?
[T. C. (Tao-Chiuh) Hsu] In the animal room, yeah.
[Lesley Williams Brunet] Is there a frozen zoo and a living zoo?
[T. C. (Tao-Chiuh) Hsu] It is living zoo.
[Lesley Williams Brunet] It is just one. Did I make up that name living zoo?
[T. C. (Tao-Chiuh) Hsu] Yeah. I went to the zoo all the time.
One time the veterinarian,
he was very nice,
(noise) later on we became very good friends. (noise)
[Lesley Williams Brunet] Are you getting dry from talking too much?
[T. C. (Tao-Chiuh) Hsu] No. In the book that
I wrote a chapter about
me called The Occasional Lion Tamer.
[Lesley Williams Brunet] Oh yes. That was good.
[T. C. (Tao-Chiuh) Hsu] There was a picture of mine with the lion.
I had one enlarged somewhere.
This vet, he worked in a Zoo but then off work,
he worked with another veterinarian group,
because those veterinarians take care of cats,
dogs, but not exotic things.
He knew how to treat even snakes, alligators and lions.
Just before dusk,
he called me, he said, "Can you come to
help me on San Willow Street.
I said, "I know that place."
He said "I need your help.
There's a lion that's sick."
Take some slides and then I want to
see the blood. I went there.
The lion was sick.
I took some blood from
her paw and made smear slides,
as I'll give you a report tomorrow.
But when I was there,
I thought it would be nice if I
could take a picture with this lion,
but I didn't have a camera with me.
The owner of this lion,
he said, "I have a Polaroid.
I think I have another film left.
Let me take a picture with you." I said, "Great."
I had my hand touching the head of
the lion and we took the picture.
If I find it,
I know I recently saw that picture,
I'll make a duplicate and send to you.
[Lesley Williams Brunet] Yeah, it (inaudible).
[T. C. (Tao-Chiuh) Hsu] In the book, I published that picture,
called it The Occasional Lion Tamer. (laughing)
[Lesley Williams Brunet] Did you want to open
his mouth and put your head in there?
T. C. (Tao-Chiuh) [Hsu] I told the vet,
this baby didn't have white cells.
I didn't know why.
I have a vet friend in Boston and I talked to him.
He says, ask them
whether they gave this lion a shot of tetracycline.
He said, "Cats cannot stand tetracycline.
It kills all their white cells."
I called, they say, yes.
But I said, don't worry.
if she does not die, she will recover.
She finally recovered,
so I got that picture of the lion tamer.
There are lot of adventures that I had.
[Lesley Williams Brunet] Yeah. I'd like to hear more of them. (laughing)
[T. C. (Tao-Chiuh) Hsu] There was once. Do you know how a chicken house is?
[Lesley Williams Brunet] Yes.
T. C. (Tao-Chiuh) [Hsu] Cat house?
[Lesley Williams Brunet] That's different, isn't it?
[T. C. (Tao-Chiuh) Hsu] No. The same as chicken house,.
[Lesley Williams Brunet] Even that expression?
T. C. (Tao-Chiuh) [Hsu] Yes. Same here.
[Lesley Williams Brunet] Are we talking about in Bovine Zillow?
[T. C. (Tao-Chiuh) Hsu] Yeah. That thing.
[Lesley Williams Brunet] Okay. I just wanted to make sure.
[T. C. (Tao-Chiuh) Hsu] One time, I had to go to the zoo to take some samples.
The chancellor of University Texas
happened to come over to visit the new department,
the MD Anderson, oldest.
Doctor has introduced some faculty.
He said, that Dr. Hsu cannot make it.
He sent the regret
because he had an appointment with a cat house.
(laughing) It was crazy.
But I did go to zoo very often until
I got all the animals.
I'll tell you one more interesting thing.
With that we can continue our next time,
if you want next time.
[Lesley Williams Brunet] Okay.
[T. C. (Tao-Chiuh) Hsu] The vet, Dr. Luke, called me.
He said, "Come over right now."
He said, I've got the tamest jaguar ever.
He said you can come take tissues, anything you want.
I jumped over and went down.
He said, I got him doped.
Sure enough, he was in the cage with head like this.
He said, do you want to take
biopsies, blood or anything?
I said I'll take some blood and biopsy.
He says, okay. Inside the display is for operation.
I went in there, and he had a system.
I remember his name was Bill.
Dr. Luke said,
"Bill get that big bloom over here."
It was a huge one.
The handler was about this size.
He said, "Stick this across the cats,
a mouse and hold it,
so he will not bite down in case.
He's doped, but in case he lies down.
That time I was still nervous.
I said, "George,
where do I take pictures?"
He said, " In the paw,
there's a vein in the paw."
I said "Does he bite?"
He said, "No, he's
adopted and Bill is holding her head up.
I said, okay, I will try.
I stick my needle this way.
By some reflex, he bit down.
All I heard was a big crack that
broomstick become two broomsticks (laughing)
Lesley Williams [Brunet] Did you jump?
[T. C. (Tao-Chiuh) Hsu] (laughing) I said,
"Is he awake now?"
He said, "No, you can still go ahead and do it.
It's just a reflex."
[Lesley Williams Brunet] Where would you get the biopsy?
Also from his paw?
[T. C. (Tao-Chiuh) Hsu] You can get it from tail,
but the tail tissue is not very good.
From the leg and many other places, you can get.
I got to know that time most of these big cats,
the lion called Season,
the tiger who has a cross-eyed called Mike,
and the leopard female who
had the (inaudible) leopard.
[Lesley Williams Brunet] Is there a specific reason you went through the cats?
I mean, in terms of the research or
[T. C. (Tao-Chiuh) Hsu] Yeah, for research. We started with cat first.
[Lesley Williams Brunet] Okay.
[T. C. (Tao-Chiuh) Hsu] The reason I said I
want to look at the antelopes and all these.
He hesitated.
He said these animals are very difficult.
They're gentle, but because of their gentle,
they easily got frightened.
If you do that,
they might even die because they are so scared.
Unless I tranquilize them first.
He said that the cats,
you don't need to tranquilize,
all you need is to squeeze them.
If they are out of the cage,
you put the cat in there and then you will roll it.
One side of the door will come over and
[Lesley Williams Brunet] (crosstalk) and hold them.
[T. C. (Tao-Chiuh) Hsu] Hold them. He say,
you want to take a blood from his tail,
from the tissue, from the hip?
Anywhere you want to. It was adventure, anyway to me.
[Lesley Williams Brunet] It sounds like it. (laughing) Well,
I've heard you talking for awhile.
Do you want to stop until our next visit?
[T. C. (Tao-Chiuh) Hsu] Yeah. Let's do next because this is 3:30.
[Lesley Williams Brunet] We'll stop. Yeah.