First, can you tell me what your father's name was?
My father's, uh, Benigno. Benigno?
Yeah, and what did he do for a living? Hm?
What did he do for a living? How did, what kind
of work did he do?
Before? My father?
Yes, uh-huh.
My father just, when he was in Angola Island,
he just was a native there, they worked in the
company, he was just like a boss
Okay, so he was there with Gregorio Sablan
Zablan? Zablan, the gorillas.
And you know the gorilla Cabrera?
The gorilla Cabrera, right.
He was on Angara.
He was on Angara, too.
Did you know him then?
I know him.
Okay. Were you born in Angara?
I was born in Angara.
You were, okay. How long did you live there? To
what age?
I was born in December 12, 1917.
In Angara. And when did you leave?
I left Angola in 1914. I lived in Angola for 14
years. I came back to Saipan for 4 years and
went back to Angola.
Why did you come back to Saipan?
I just wanted to visit my family.
Your family.
My parents.
Uh-huh. Now, how long did your father work in Angour?
Oh, that's... I don't know how long, because he
was working there so many times.
In... in...
Went back to Saipan, and after the Japanese,
they took over Angour.
They went back again, the same work they did,
and that was the time I went.
Okay, how long did your family stay in Angbawa
though, until the end of the war? Did they come
back to Saipan before the war?
No, they just stayed in Andorra until then we
went back to Garosmao, Palau Island.
So, big island in Palau. Babalbao?
So we was there, we was working on the aluminum company.
He took the alumna, he was book-sided, I
recall, book-sided by a lot.
He took that to, I worked on that company, and
he took my father and my mother there.
Okay, now, what year was this, that you moved
to Babadook?
Uh, almost three or four years before the war.
Okay, and you were there throughout the war?
Your family was in Palau?
Yeah, but after the war, I came to Saipan
before my father and my family came back here
Oh, so you came back, what year did you come
back to Saipan?
I think it was after the prisoner war
POW camp?
Yeah, POW camp in Havana, then they sent me
back to Japan
They sent you to Japan?
They sent me back to Japan
Why, they thought you were Japanese?
Japanese? No, they know I'm a Saipan native,
but still I was together with the Japanese
So how long were you in Japan before you came
back to Saipan?
Almost three months, close to three months I
came back to Saipan
What year was that?
1916, 1946 I came back to Saipan
That's after they closed Camp Sasuke?
Oh yeah, after the Kamsa Shukri, it's still
open, but those Japanese that were in the Kamsa
Shukri, they were already sent to Japan before
I reached Japan, and those Mitsugawas from
Saipan, in Togihama
What's your mother's name? Konsuelo
So, did your father marry your mother in Saipan?
Yeah, in Saipan.
During the German times, yeah? Yeah.
So basically, you only spent about four years
in Saipan then, until after the war. Yeah.
What do you remember? When you came back at the
age of 14, what do you remember about Saipan?
The Japanese time? That's only in the book
there, because I was, the time I stayed in
Saipan for four years, that's, I was in
Tanapak, I stayed with my father, sister,
house, I stayed in Tanapak for four years.
What was their name?
Maria, San Nicolas, Sardine, I stayed there,
and when I stayed in Tanafel, I stayed in
Galapagos for four years, then I went back to Angola.
Did you go to school while you were in Tanafel,
or did you work?
No, no.
You worked?
No, I didn't work.
When I was in Garapan, I was working for the
Japanese sound record, not news, but old, you
know, those kind of paper.
Make paper? Paper factory?
Paper, yeah.
Okay. So you lived in Tanepag and then you
worked in Garapan for a few years?
No. After I, from the Tanepag, I went back to
stay in Garapan, then I worked there.
What made you decide to go back to Angaur?
Because my father and my mother are still there.
Yeah. But you stayed here for four years. Yeah.
Okay. So what do you remember about those four
years? Anything significant? Did you have any
special friends?
No, no, no.
At that time, you know, I guess because one of
my brothers was here too at that time.
So, and one of my sisters, we went together.
So, at that time I reached there for four years
and went back to Andorra.
All of you? Okay.
But only my brother, yes, James Hyphen, because
he's long time in America.
Okay. So then when you left here, you went
directly back to Angola? You didn't go any
place else?
That's the time. I was working in Angola, and
after that, I didn't work for the company in Angola.
It was only my father and my brother, then by
the time of my process, my brother went to work
on that aluminum company.
Was that a mine or what? A bauxite mine?
A bauxite mine.
So when you were back to Palau, you were 18
years old? Yeah.
And you started working in the bauxite mine too
or no?
I started work there. Before that, I was, no,
no. Before 18, I think I still was 18 years old
when I worked in Hangar.
And after that, when I was 19 years old, I was
work for the, still work on the front of the
store in Hangar.
And that's why I was making the boat to try to
get the scrap from a rubber dog and...
Also, you were working in a shipyard where they
made boats?
No, no. There was a... they make the... just
hire some Japanese to make the sailboat before,
But put an engine on that line to just go
around to the island in Palau to buy the coconut.
Buy coconut, copra. Buy copra to hang out and
pay you.
And soon as we get there, so many times, we
send to the Nambo in Palau.
the number they send opera to Japan, they send
to Japan.
Sister Antonietta, her name was Kumiko Nishikawa.
Kumiko Nishikawa. Kumiko?
Kumiko Nishikawa.
She got sister Antonietta, the Mercedarian sisters.
Was anybody in your family married to a Japanese?
Where my sister, one of my sisters, what was
her name? Francisco
Francisco, after that, her husband died in Nagoya
In where?
Nagoya, Nagoya in Japan
Ah, Nagoya Nagoya
Okay, so she was living in Japan?
Yes, she was in Japan for two years, she had
two kids, they were born in Japan
Yeah, and she was living in Japan when her
husband died?
Yeah, my sister's husband died in Nagoya, so
they came back to Palau
Okay, now what was her Japanese husband's name,
the last name?
Tsuchiyama Kisaku
Okay, so you had one sister, Francesca, and she
was married to a Japanese, and he died in
Nagoya before the war. Husband.
Yeah, and then she came back to fly?
Came back to fly.
Okay. Was anybody in your family married to a Korean?
Okay, did you know any Koreans?
Yes, only my father's side of the family was
one in Kenya with Matsumoto.
Oh, this is Matsumoto? You're related to him?
Yeah, his wife is my girlfriend.
Oh, Francesco, you. I interviewed them.
That's right, yeah.
He's your cousin.
Oh, very interesting.
Matamoros is in Eastern Peru, right? Yes.
What do you remember about the...
Did you know any Koreans in Paraguay?
There was Francisco's father.
He was together in Garismal Island in Paraguay.
The Armenian company.
Francisco's father was in Palau?
Yes, he saved money
I thought he was up in the Northern Islands,
Pagan or...
No, he came to Palau too
Oh, this is before the war?
Before the war
And then, did he leave Palau to come back?
I don't know, because after I leave in Palau, I
don't know
He's there, but not back
Ah, okay
But what do you remember about the Koreans in Palau?
Were they like laborers or what kind of, or did
you know them very well?
There was only about 1.9 or 2 of us were in the
company, but I don't know, not much.
Okay, were you the only person in your family
to serve in the Japanese military?
Yes, only me.
Just only you.
okay so um tell me about that how did you you
enlisted voluntarily in the japanese navy
yeah because at that time you know it's really
the islanders even how much money you have you
cannot buy the food because they didn't send in
rice for us so you joined the navy to eat
No, that's my intention on that things. I just
went to Navy, soon if I go back I'll be lucky,
maybe I can make more money again, and I don't
know who's going to win on the war.
Okay, so what year was this that you...
What the first bombing fallout?
The first bomb fallout?
Yeah, they bombed in Palau, 1943 maybe, 1943, I
think it was 1943, they bombed, you know the
American ship already in the plane that came to
Palau was bombed, Palau for 2 days, continue 2
days, from the morning 6:00-6:00 at night, they
started bombing
How long before the invasion of Peleliu was
this? Was this one year, two years, three years? Before?
Before I joined?
No, no. See, the Americans invaded Peleliu and
Angaur in 1945.
So, but you say the first time they bombed
them, would you say that was 1944, 43, 42?
I didn't remember that, but I already bombed
Angkor, KBG, and Palau.
And that was before the invasion, though.
Several years? Yeah.
Okay. So did they ask for volunteers?
Yeah, there was one of the, I think it was a
lieutenant from New Guinea.
They came to Palau to, they need to follow that
dive boat, you know the boat, to take to New Guinea,
for use for maybe transportation or something.
So, that's the time they look in the people who
want to be German.
There you go. So, and you're listed with some
other Chamorros?
I, yeah.
Do you remember the names of some of the other Chamorros?
Yes, Sir. All I, there was, when I continued
was die already.
Oh, you're what?
They already died, those.
Oh, they died? Did they survive the war?
After the war, we came to, from Borneo, we came
back here.
No doubt. Do you remember the names of any of them?
Oh, there's a lot of them. Bindinidu, Bindinidu
Regis, Nikolaos.
So you volunteered for the Japanese Navy to
serve on this wooden fishing boat, basically,
wasn't it? Or diving boat?
Yes, diving boat.
Okay, tell me what happened after that. You
enlisted and what happened?
Oh, so, from Garismal, Garismal, where's Garismal?
From Garismal, Badaub.
From that place, I heard that there's somebody
there, you know, one of the, from Badaub,
you know, they're meeting the people who work
on the boat. Yeah.
So, I went there to try to ask if we can get,
yeah, food.
So when I go there, since I was lieutenant in
Japanese, that's, I guess I'm a marine.
You're the marine or a sailor?
Marine, maybe marine or something, but maybe.
Because it was not only the army, there was a
kind senpai, maybe, but he was still in the center.
So that guy, he was a Mitsubishi guy, so they
accepted him.
So you asked to join and they said yes? Yes.
OK. Do you remember his name, Lieutenant? Uh...
I guess not.
I forgot that.
That's all right.
So what happened after this, now? So you joined.
I joined when we left, I think so.
Yeah, I was joined on that.
Then, you know, that night,
I was in Malacca, in Palau, Malacca, Malacca,
what is that, oh Malacca, so you left Palau
that same day?
Same day, that night, I left Dar es Salaam to
end there, to Koror.
And from Koror, we missed that guy.
Then they put us, next day they put us on the boat.
Then we was on the Maracatu, Maracatu, that
next moon.
So you enlisted one day, and the next day you
all were on the boat and you were leaving for
the Maracas?
No, we didn't, well, we got, we had a, we just
right down to the, we just walked down there
and we got to the boat.
And we had a boat to, we scanned the boat to
stand by there when we were going to leave Palau.
So how long, how long?
So that, that the first bomb when they came. Yeah.
American came to bomb Palau.
Then you left?
Two days.
Two days continue, and after that maybe three
or four more days.
At the time we hit Palau.
Okay, so the bombing of Palau, though, that was
mostly ships bombing or airplanes?
Ship bombing.
You know, the airplane that bombed us, there
was a ship, another ship in the middle of the canyon.
Because they were already, I think, that's
before they went to Pearl Harbor?
Oh, I think they bombed Pearl Harbor already.
The Japanese? Yeah.
Oh, yeah.
I think they already bombed Pearl Harbor.
The Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor December 1941.
And I don't think it was 1943 before the Americans
could come in and bomb Pearl Harbor. Yeah.
About that time, when we left, already there
were many ships in Palau.
In the American, there was one close ship, too.
Except that close ship, there was...
Yeah, they didn't touch anything.
Even one bullet, they didn't touch anything.
So, I think after four days, we started giving Palau.
We got those food that we don't have on our boat,
or maybe four boats that we don't have for the food,
and we left Palau, we stopped by Angau for one night,
and after the next morning, we left Angau.
Four days and four nights, by the time we got
close to Togo Bay, I left.
Togo Bay? Yes.
I was starving.
How do you spell Togo Bay?
In Babadou.
But what did she say when you told her you were
going to join the Japanese Navy?
She doesn't say nothing because I just say I'm
going to try to live a life.
So I get lucky again.
How many children did your mother have at that time?
Worked together 17, so 5 died, so after that
time, it was war.
5 died during the war?
Before the war, before the war.
Okay, so you were 4 days from Angara to?
Cocoa Bay.
Cocoa Bay Island. How long did you stay there?
4 days and 4 nights.
Okay, the Japanese had a base there?
They have a, not the base, but a couple of
military was there, a couple of soldiers was
there, just a couple of soldiers, a small
island, so it was an island, a couple of
islands was there.
So when we reached the island, there was sun,
and I was asleep for 18 hours.
So, American submarines sunk in your Popo Bay Island?
Yeah, we were sunk in Popo Bay Island.
And you said they sunk you with their deck guns? No.
You said the submarine sunk you with deck guns?
Deck guns.
They came up and then they fired.
And you were one of how many ships? Four.
And one survived?
One survived.
So, you were 18 hours in the water. Yeah.
Who saved you?
Yes, my surfer, we were swimming, so the next
morning they showed the one that doesn't trunk.
They said.
So, we were swimming until we released the girl.
We started early in the morning, they showed us
a baby frog.
So, we started swimming and released the girl
in the afternoon.
So, you had a life jacket?
Swimming like that for 18 hours?
Yes, piece of wood.
No sharks?
No. They, between the, really, between the
streaming and the, between they start coming.
They start coming. Did they, anybody get bitten? No.
They didn't attack you?
Yes, they didn't attack me because, you know,
there was, the whole boat, there was altogether
50 people.
50 people?
Fifty people that went, half of the people were
stuck in the water.
They died in the water?
There were some and they were still in the water.
They said when the water is fire, that's the
time they die.
They were killed.
So there were fifty people altogether. Half of
them died.
So there were twenty-five that survived this? Yeah.
Did the sharks eat any of the dead people?
That's why we don't know, because at night,
even at the start of the fight, they shoot us
in the back.
They shoot us like, you know, already dead. So
we don't know.
But one, that time it was ten people together,
that night.
So next morning, when we showed up both, the
one that got some chance, so we started shooting.
So they say they're not fast enough, because
three of us, they just swim slow, and they are
already far from us.
And at that time there was a shark coming.
A shark? While you were swimming to the boat?
No, before that.
A shark was circling you?
They were circling us.
But they didn't attack? No.
I stayed for a bit, and then the shark came.
Okay, so what happened now? You were rescued?
So, the rescue, I was lucky on that day because
I knew I really don't have to wait for the
machine, the engine. Yeah.
But our, the engineer on that boat that was back...
He was killed.
He was killed here on the ship, the crew inside
the engine room. Yeah.
So when you get there, you bring him out and
wrap him up with a blanket and tie him up and
put a stick on the neck and tie him up and
throw him to the water.
They did engineer?
They did engineer.
So they put weights around his legs and dropped
him over the side? Yeah.
I'm the one that fixed the engine to try to
make ground, because only one time, the air
conditioner, it doesn't fill up the pump, so
there's only little air they get for blowing
the air from the engine.
I got no air to start it on the engine.
So I used two guys to get the fire to moving
and start it back in.
Then we went to almost four hours after that.
I fixed the engine to make it run.
So we stopped the boat.
So I went down to the border and picked him up
over the air-conditioner.
The next stand-by, we were still waiting for
any people to come to the border.
So when we were waiting, there were four guys
that came again.
Two Japanese and two Chamorros.
Those two Chamorros had two brothers.
They come over there, David Borja and Enrique
Borja, the school brother, he was there after
the war with the Japanese, two Japanese.
Then, the next day, I rowed the boat and
reached the Bube Island.
So how many people did you pick up out of the
water altogether?
We picked up up to ten and four, and the rest
of the others.
The one that was in St. Augustine, the people
there, except the engineer, was five hundred,
so he was twenty-five.
Twenty-five, and you all were in the boat?
Twenty-four, because the other ones, I think
they found him and forty days, up to forty
days, they found him in Agmahere.
He was alive, sir? He was alive. I was inside
the boat, but the waters got cold, and they had
a pool of water, and they found that, and he
nearly had my head out of there, and for almost
three months in the hospital.
So when I went all the way down from, I came
back to Palau and go to, I come back from, the
way I went to Palau and go back to Sorong, New
Guinea, Sorong.
So you went all the way to Folkville Island,
then you brought another folk back to Palau? Yeah.
The one that you fixed?
The other boat that came from Palau to bring
the food for the army there.
And we got on that one and went back to Palau.
What kind of boat? Was that a destroyer?
No, not destroyer. It was a big tuna boat.
A tuna boat, okay.
A fishing boat.
So then you went back to Palau.
We went back to Palau.
Then started right on the, we arrived on the destroyer.
Australia to come to Sulawesi
Right, okay
Now, where was MacArthur's forces now?
MacArthur was advancing near General Douglas MacArthur?
General MacArthur was on that time in I think
Sulawesi Island? Sulawesi Island he was
He was coming here and he was in Biak
yeah that's from the philippines right from
philippines go to borneo yeah well see first
Mccarthy came yeah I was Newton and then
there's from a soron from Soron and new guinea
there was a
Right, there was a bomb in Solomon, a Japanese airplane.
Yeah, there was a bomb in Solomon.
Solomon, how do you spell that?
Solomon Island? Yeah.
Oh, Solomon.
Oh, there was a bomb in Solomon.
A bomb in Solomon.
Solomon Island.
Then, it's very lucky, it was at 15, because we
always count how many planes there was pass. Yeah.
It was three months in the beginning, so we
were looking that every time they pass, they
will come.
So how many, when they come back? Lucky if they
come back one or two.
Out of 50?
Out of 50.
Lucky if one or two people come.
I can't help but I'm just waiting for my
father's view, like Solomon's view.
I can't watch it anymore.
The Japanese, they've killed me.
Then, from there they, they have a small, they
have a one bistro again.
They came to Murtaza and they took us from
there, from New Guinea, took us to Ambonia,
Ambon Island.
Ambon Island?
Yeah, in Ambon. I was in there. So we were in
there for another seven days.
Now, let me ask you a question here. When you
were in Borneo or Ambon, did you ever see, were
you ever bombed by American planes?
No, never. Never?
Okay. Go ahead. You were in Ambon.
Then we went to Angon, from Angon, stay one
week there, then we went to Celebes, Makassar
Island, Celebes in Makassar, so we went there
two nights there, two days, two nights, and we
went back to Balikpapan in Borneo
Balikpapan. Balikpapan in Borneo, okay.
So we went there, and next day, they sent us
back to Samarinda...
Sanasanna? Sanasanna?
Sanasanna, Samarinda, Muharesa, three, lot of
name on that place.
There was, anyway, you...
That's on Borneo? Borneo.
You go there and we went there and we stayed in
Samasangha for a couple of months again.
Then they sent us back to Samarinda, that
headquarters in Japanese, in Samarinda in Borneo.
Submarine headquarters?
Submarine, no.
That headquarters, submarine, that submarine, that...
Military headquarters?
Uh, military headquarters in Japanese there.
So, it was just only two of us, the one from Palau.
Two of us, the same boat to the Tarakan Island. Tarakan.
Now, where's that?
Just in Borneo.
That's off Borneo.
They have a secret island to them, but they
have a lot of oil there.
Okay, let me stop just for a Sec.
Then, so, what I found out then, I think it's a
mouse, 10 mouse, and still there was no bombing.
No bombing?
No bombing.
Did you ever get sick, malaria, or any other
tropical disease?
Myself, I never got sick. No malaria. Some of
our companions already have sick malaria.
So I stayed there for almost 10 months with no
back. No American back.
So after that, they already...
Halmahera, you know, the North High Island,
they all stick from Australia.
You know, Australia, they...
The Australians came there?
Japanese was there.
When you go to Australia, they run this island.
They put the Halmahera. Yeah.
Yeah, MacArthur, Australians.
The Australians were with General MacArthur. Yeah.
Via Halmahera. Yeah.
So they got the Halmahera there.
So from that war, they started bombing my
facade, everywhere on my facade, even outside,
even the tarpaulin.
So you got bombed there?
Yeah, bombed there. Every day.
If you've been up to almost ten months there,
they started bombing.
If they come at day, they don't come at night.
Sometimes they just don't come at day, and come
at night, day and night, they keep on...
And they have a... the Japanese started to make
the air base there.
So, when they started work on the air base,
when they come in, they don't bomb the air
base, they bomb some place.
They were just waiting until they finished the airbase.
They were already completely...
That time, if they come in, they start bombing
the airbase.
They went to the airbase to finish.
Now, what were you doing during this time?
Were you working on the airspace?
I worked on the... No.
I just worked on the machine.
We got a train there.
We have a train, a diesel train, Germany diesel.
And we have a gasoline engine train. So that's
our job is to remove those, if there was ship
coming for food, hand-loaded, and put on the
warehouse, and use the train for moving around.
So I work on that machine.
I work on that train.
And did you ever see any American planes come by?
Only one. The pilot came only once.
Okay. What happened to the pilot?
What happened to the pilot? Died.
In the crash? Yes.
All of them.
B-21 came.
It was a big bomber? B-25?
No, not B-24. B-25.
I think B-25 was smaller.
Yeah, a bit smaller.
So what happened? You were there for 10 months,
you said?
Then it was started, you know, between the time
they throw the ramp there, and one day they
throw about 3 points from the notified.
They pull that paper and say what day, what
time, what month, what day, what time they're
going to come in to the island.
They pull that paper.
So everybody, you know, the Japanese are very
strict about that principle.
They don't want to show it to anyone.
Yeah, they don't want anybody to see that.
So, there was, the time was, they came in on
that day, because I still remember that,
because I saw that little antenna and I saw
that, so I saw that.
So, they keep on warning us, day and night,
they keep on telling us when to come to run.
And after that, one morning, I started from a
place to go to the work.
So I didn't work, not really far, so I just
worked there.
And they all come here, so when they get close
to the house,
I saw there was a siren, there was a bushel,
there was a spoon, they heard the sound of the
gun over there.
So we ran into the cave, where they make the... Parasol?
Yeah. I ran in there, and I stayed there, and I
just heard the sound of the gun.
It just passed by, doesn't go anywhere.
So I said, what happened?
So I go out, and I was standing in front of the workplace,
and I looked at one of the lieutenants.
They passed by.
So I saw them.
And I said, where did the criminals go?
And I said, not all criminals.
The enemy already just showed.
Go to stand by to go to jungle.
Oh, they invaded the island? Yeah.
These were Australian troops, you said?
Australian troops.
Well, we already get, you know, they already
come to that time, early in the morning.
Mm, that early.
And we already saw the sea one.
The plane was passed by, and that's when I guess
I didn't hear anything.
So we went back to our room and get all the
stuff we need.
So we started to go to the jungle.
And what happened? You hide in the jungle for a
long time?
Well, three months.
Three months? Yeah.
How did you live?
Live out left and right in the jungle?
They have a, you know, my group, they have a
Bush group, you know, it's a very religious,
very religious, we eat, but not hungry for...
So were you with Japanese or just tomorrow?
With the Japanese, with the Japanese.
Now did you end up fighting?
Only two tomorrow, that's all.
Now did you end up fighting the Australians, or
did you serve?
No, no, yes, only... I was trained, but before
I was joined under one group, eight of us, we
were supposed to go back to just one...
Go back to what?
We got to see the enemy, and we were very lucky
because when the 8th group, we were staying at
one place and one of the lieutenants told us to
be three, they can't cross the jungle road.
three and the two, and the other three, we
would make space in between, so when something happened,
that one could allow the other. So when we
started and worked on that beginning,
I think it was around 50 feet in between, we
made 50 feet in between, so the three of them,
There were 50 people playing each group, there
would be two, and three, and two.
So, when they come to the fourth group, by the
time there was a machine gun,
there was a southern soldier who was waiting there.
So, when they saw that there was a machine gun,
they went with the machine gun,
and me and the other one, and Mutz.
So, yeah, so we just came down and a couple of
houses down the road, the machine gun there.
See, but the tree is just completely dead.
Dead tree.
They were Japanese?
Three Japanese.
So me and the other Japanese, we was, uh, lay
down on the ground.
And I told them we'd go back.
So when they get up and run again, they start
to shoot all the machine guns, and they run to
the ground again.
Then, after they stop, they run back to that
tree, and rush on the next one.
So what happened after that?
After that, we go back, because the other one,
they try to go look at that tree, and they find
out what happened.
but they could not get together because when
they heard something, they were going to shoot
them again.
So they went back again to the headquarters and
they said they would have Eren in the place.
So you stayed in the jungle some more?
We stayed in the jungle.
For how much longer?
Three months.
Three months, okay. Now, what happened after
three months?
After three months, they called us, they called
the U.S. food group at that time.
We had to stay in the jungle to cook the rice
from that day.
Before that day, that night, there was the
other contingent,
try to go around to look for some food on the,
behind the hospital in the, in Parapan
and they show them of those, Australian was
playing ping-pong inside the hospital
so they show them and they just shoot it, but
not when they show some people that they just
shoot it
and just leave it, after they shoot it, just
leave it and they play ping-pong again
So, anyway, your friends came to where the
Australians were, where they had a hospital,
and the Australians saw them, and they killed them?
They killed them. Not killed them, but after
they saw them, they shot them in the arm.
So, they jumped to the Union out there, and
that night, I guess around 12:00, the generator
was died.
Maybe somebody went to put the water, or oil,
and they had a mural, so that's what happened.
They came out again to see us on vacation.
You ran away to the jungle?
We ran away to the jungle.
So when did you, did you surrender after three months?
Well, after three months, they catch us too.
How did they catch you?
There was one afternoon, we cooked the rice,
and we ate already.
After we ate already, you know that guy that
was shooting that night?
We tried to put the rubber and clean the window frame.
So when we started, I started, I saw some bad guys.
They shoot us.
There's three officers.
When I got close to that prison, they shot some
of us.
Smoke, they come, and just shoot us.
They started to smoke from the right.
Well, the power, power smoke.
After we had food and water, so three officers
in the evening, maybe four, four, 5:00 in the
evening, they came there.
Three Australians?
Three Australian officers.
So they shoot the jungle there.
So we ran away.
About the time when we ran away, I had one pistol.
I tried to go hiding there, so I jumped,
because I had a rubber.
I jumped down there, and since I jumped down
there, they just heard the sound.
Hey, come on!
One night, one of us, three or four of us knew
about it.
They didn't shoot you, though?
We weren't shooting.
So, I mean, throwing light.
So, I got stunned.
I said, come on!
So, I walked over there.
When I get closer, I said, you Japanese?
I said, no, I'm not Japanese.
You understood English?
I understood a little bit of Japanese.
But I said, no, I'm not Japanese.
I'm Tamil.
He said, what Tamil?
I said, Saitam.
They don't know what Saitam is.
He said, what Saitam?
I said, Mariana Saitam.
He said, I knew.
Is there any Japanese there with you today?
I said, no.
He said, you don't know?
What happened to the other two?
They ran out. Anyway, they don't have a gun.
They don't have a gun. They ran out.
But I don't think, I don't feel to be that
absolute to have those guys around at that time.
You told them why?
I told, just only one, only one myself there. Then?
When I opened the door, so they...
You want to stop?
Okay, so then that's when you surrendered. Yeah.
What did they do to you? They...
They told me, I'll just follow him.
So, I follow him, then...
They didn't say if they're going to put me on
the base, or I'll just follow him.
The last officer, when they go to the camp, he say,
OK, you just wait me here.
I wait you here and over.
So you went back, and they give me three packs cigarette,
and lapis type, and cistern, and they give me nuts.
OK, that's why I say, thank you, Sir.
I go all the way to the camp before.
It was an Indonesian, right? Indonesian
It was a people's camp
An Indonesian camp
They had a camp for Indonesians?
Yeah, they had a camp for Indonesians
because after the war there was
a camp
Camp 6
I think it was
Indonesia was
So I went there
As soon as I got there
it was
The engineer said, there's a work in the office there.
He said, OK, you just wait down here.
We'll call up the headquarters and see what
we're going to do.
What are we going to do?
So when we go to headquarters, there's
our own headquarters, they say, OK, let's get
someone there and I'll do anything.
Do anything they can.
I'll get the jeep, so I'll work on the jeep
to go to the camp, but the Japanese had
surrendered already, they formed that camp for us.
So when I went, there was 15 Japanese daytime
before me.
So they put us together, they changed our raft
loads, they gave us those Apsara and
So they give us one loaf of bread, cut by half,
for each guy, and one plank of meat for each guy.
So they give us that bread, and we eat it.
We were the ones, you know, the San Japanese
were telling me what they were going to do with us.
I said, so what are you going to do? You mean
they're going to kill us or what's going to happen?
What are you supposed to do?
If you can't stop, if you have a power to kill
us because we're powerful, we'll use the power.
So, well, in that game, for me, what they were
going to do for us, it was...
And what did they say?
They asked what's good for me, and I said,
What's good for me?
And they said,
What are we going to do now?
Do you have the answer?
I answer him? Yeah.
He says, OK, what we need is the house, so
let's depend on that.
But there were only 15 Japanese?
Only 15, yeah.
Did you think you were going to be killed?
No, my son was killed.
If they caught me, they'd kill me.
And my son.
So, when
we went to the headquarters
after that
one group was hand by hand
one line, they'd go to the headquarters
and they used to get
one each
They used to get one by one.
They interrogated you.
Yeah. So, I ran my time. So, I'm about 217.
Yeah. Out of Paracan, all the Japanese were
from Paracan.
There was no Christian.
Christian. 217.
Out of how many original Japanese?
Almost 4,000.
The rest were killed?
Some were killed, some after that.
Okay, there were other people that surrendered later.
Yeah, because the war was over.
So after they caught me, I think it was five
days after they caught me, the war was over.
The war was over?
That was in August then?
What I was saying, oh, when's the Japanese surrender?
Well, I think it was, they dropped the atomic
bomb on August 6th.
And I think the Japanese surrendered a week or
two later.
What about that?
It was August, and then the war was over.
Well, at that time, I believe it was in the stockade,
back in the stockade plan on the south coast.
So, hopefully it will stop, it will help also,
but it's really not that I like it, it's really
not that I like it.
So, they still put me on the North Pole Island
for, they sent me from Pelican to North Pole.
North Pole.
For three and a half, ten months.
Ten months? Yeah.
Why so long?
I don't know.
What were the conditions like?
I guess, because I heard when I was in Morocco,
I heard that Americans give 200 ships to
Japanese to use to remove all the people from
the outside of America
So it's just a question of shipping. They take
that long before they get a shipment. Were you
treated well in Japan?
In that time, in that time, what?
What year was it? 1937.
Not in this period? No.
That's when, because the time it was,
they had a group of Japanese MPs,
but one day was 600 Indian soldiers.
Oh, they were soldiers from India?
Soldiers from India.
They were guarding the Japanese, they had 600
soldiers from India to make, they called up
blood, blood working, because you know, out of
600, they were, they, 40 days, they tried to
work 40 days and 4 nights.
They cleaned those, removed those blue, some
material from the road, but everyone that slept
on the clean road was cut in half, was killed.
Who did it?
The Japanese.
They killed who?
They killed the Indians.
Oh, sorry.
Indian soldiers.
Here on Amis Island?
Here on Amis Island.
No, no, no.
They had 600 Indian soldiers.
And they killed all of them?
They killed all of them?
There was, just when we got to the finish,
there were just under 60. Sixty?
Now, so they used the Indian soldiers as laborers?
And then you say they chopped their heads off?
They chopped their heads off.
Just when they were made, that's how they were used.
So when they couldn't work anymore, they
chopped their heads off? Yes.
What happened to the Japanese who were responsible?
That's not all of the Japanese.
That's of Thailand.
Most of the people.
They were? They were working with the Japanese?
They were working with the Japanese. There were
some Japanese soldiers, those people.
So I was in the North Pole when they came,
there was a hundred Taiwanese. Yeah?
A hundred, about a hundred Taiwanese of new and Japanese.
They had them.
So before we get to the North Pole, after we
investigate on those people, they left.
The Australians did? Or the Indian soldiers?
No, the Australian soldiers were killed
They took all the soldiers in Taiwan?
Taiwan, but Taiwan was conquered by North Korea
And they killed them?
North Korea
After the investigation
After the investigation? Yes
But these were Taiwanese, these were Chinese
from Taiwan? Yes
But they were loyal to Japan?
Yes, that's before
And they were actually involved in Indian soldiers?
So out of 600 Indian soldiers, only 600?
600 Indian soldiers, yes.
And you saw the execution?
No, I didn't see it.
But those people that came there, the Taiwanese
that came there,
Well, when we investigate, after police investigation,
they'll tell us because you were on that route.
So we prefer the route where you were on that route.
I think they're going to throw out,
I think they're going to throw out 600 of our,
our new people's files.
So they were, you were there ten months, and
anything else of significance happened in that
ten months?
After ten months, you know, they finally, one
ship only, to Hamaera.
There was Japanese from this place, and Arabs
from another place.
They put together on one ship with 4,000 people
One trip to Japan
Now this is Murakai here, you say?
Where's Hamahira?
Hamahira is this way
That's the big one
Okay, Hamahira
That's Murakai
So you were 4,000 people on one ship
One ship
And how long did it take you to get to Japan?
Five days
Anybody died during that five days?
There was only one of our roadies, a Malawar
roadie, who was found on the street, so we took
him to our home.
He found the street roadies, that one, and took him.
So, what happened to you when you arrived in Japan?
That's the promise.
Well, in Japan, that's Kurihana.
Wakayama came from Panabe.
Went to Panabe.
Panabe, that's a town.
Near where? Wakayama.
Wakayama came.
What is that?
That's, uh, I don't know, anyway, from, uh,
Kuriana, uh, Yokohama, from Yokohama to about,
which is, like, 24 hours from the train, which
goes to Ritsuko.
So that's north or south?
Uh, I think south.
Okay. And that's, and you, that's where they,
they put you?
For me there, after that, the next day, they
give us 300 yen each one to go.
Then to get in, they will ask you where you
live, where you place to go.
So in the time for me, I go back to Saipan.
So no ship in Saipan. No transportation net to
go back to Saipan.
So they told me to stay in the barracks there,
to wait to get the files in the paper.
I was on the phone call. No, I can't ask him. I
can't help him. I can't talk to him.
So they called me to work in the... They...
They gave the telephone to my partner and what
they were going to do for me.
So I stayed for another one week to wait for
the answer.
But after that, they called me again and said,
OK, if you're not going to leave, you're going
to give in.
And I went to Curitiba.
So I stayed in Curitiba for another maybe four
or three months.
Then they sent me back.
So what did you do during that four or three months?
I don't pay anything for, I eat food, they give
us food, and we've been there, they try to ask
some money, and I guess, I don't have one, but
anyway, because when I was there too, they did
not give us all the money.
I was in Boulogne, and I was in the Medellin of
some place over there.
So they put you on a ship back to Saipan? Yeah.
And the Japanese never paid you while you were there?
Did you ever try to get the money from them? No.
What did you think when you saw Saipan?
What did you think of Saipan when you arrived back?
When I came to Saipan, there was no green
either, and no green trees either.
No trees?
No brown.
No brown, no trees?
No trees. Good.
Now, what happened?
Where did you go?
Did you go to Camp Pacific when you arrived?
Yes, I was.
When I returned to Cebu, I was 21 days.
I was staying in the front of the barricade.
I was waiting because the ship was very busy to
in and out.
So you were on a ship?
No, I was staying on the ship.
For 21 days?
21 days.
Because you couldn't get in?
11 days, 11 days on the ship.
11 days on the ship, right here in Lake Ararat? Yeah.
Because there were so many ships and you
couldn't get in.
You cannot go anywhere, because they line up
those ships in and out.
What were they doing? This is after the war,
right? 1946?
Well, 1946 is when they punished you.
You know, ships from Japan, they come here and
get a food and go back, because a lot of
Americans in Japan too, Australian, American. Yeah.
So the ships bring their food and take them to Japan.
So where did you, and when you finally got off
the ship, where did you go?
Did you find your family?
Yeah, of course. I guess I found my brother.
Where was he?
He was on the police.
He was on the police force?
Yes, police man.
What was his name again?
Jose Sablan.
He died already.
He was on the police force with Boro Cabrera then?
Uh, yeah.
Boro Cabrera.
No, no. Those are just rats. Rat guy. Those are
just rats in the prison.
Oh, he was just in the prison?
My brother was in this.
So where did you live then when you lived with
your brother?
I lived with my sister.
Where and where?
Because one of my sisters was living in Suzuki area.
But I'm from Yap.
So he was in Yap?
Yes, at that time, because her husband was
killed by a bomb, and her friend was killed by
a bomb, and now she's still alive?
Yes, she's still alive, she's dead.
Okay, so you were staying in Kansas City? Yes.
In Kansas City or in a house?
Not a house already. It was open already, but
those Japanese, I think those Japanese were
from the Miyamoto police station, but those
were all the Japanese people.
They were the police station? Yeah.
By the Toyota? Yeah.
Okay, so then how did you make a living after that?
What kind of work?
The time I was...
When I...
I came to...
Ireland and that GED
they just put us at the hospital. So...
Darlene came, so...
And after they gave us to go,
I was still under my sister's house.
Then the next day, I reported to the local.
So I worked in the CA Mechanic shop.
The mechanic shop under the government.
The whirlwind was in the, do you know this
church now, Selankana? Selankana Church?
Selankana Church now. Church.
Church, oh yeah.
The church in Selankana.
Okay, yeah.
That's, the back there was an atomic shop, a
jeep shop, truck shop. I worked on that place.
Now how many years did you do that?
So, I worked my job from a new defined. I
started with the government. I started back
with the municipal.
Because at that time, there was no island power yet.
Because many places were used by the Genoese. Guadalquivir.
Guadalquivir, Genoese.
We worked on the Guadalquivir, Genoese.
So, I learned all the...
I learned how to use it, but it didn't come to us.
So, when did your family in Paraguay, when did
they return?
It was...
It's not because he was killed when my sister
did, but when it was up to one month, or was it
two months, my father and my mother came back here.
So you had a big family reunion? What did your
mother say when she saw you get killed?
Oh, it was a surprise when they came to South
Bunda and see me here.
Were there any other family members killed
during the war?
Oh, no. No?
And how did they survive on Paraguay during all
this time?
That's the thing.
My father and my mother was there.
Some people, not only my father and my mother,
but we had some other people.
So some of them, I don't know,
they just ran away.
And the Japanese, they ran away from Palau to
get the American humble.
Oh, they went to save America?
Yeah, they went to save America. So at that
time, there was a whole family, you know.
It was like we had people from all over the country.
I don't remember, I'm sorry. Yeah.
Were you day and night?
Day and night.
Mostly, like, different investigation of those
people that was running away from you?
Oh, the Japanese were investigating me.
The Japanese were investigating you?
Yes, they were.
And they investigated you for your mother and father?
My mother and father.
What did they do to you?
Did you say there was any contact from the
Americans or those people there, or were they
around too?
Ali Tamar went to Langa.
Ah, I see. One summer, not only summer, summer
of Palawan.
Oh, okay.
Did they execute Ali Tamar, their administration?
Well, one of my sisters was in Hong Kong when
the war started.
So I tried to make contact with her before the
war started.
But, you know, this couple, which I know a
little bit from a couple of other guys,
they fell on the runway and got to the seat,
and from the seat, they fell on the ground.
Oh, so in other words, they took a boat out to
the American ship. Yeah.
And then they went back to Anga.
Okay, but what did the Japanese do to the other tomorrow?
That's why they did an investigation to try to
kill them.
Did they kill them?
No one died.
No one was killed.
Were your parents? No.
Then they came back?
They came back to South Africa.
And I think it was like from Iran maybe.
You decided that tomorrow, not yet.
not Japanese.
I'm just curious though, in terms of thinking
in the future, what do you think will happen to
Saipan if America ever leaves?
No, but if America says, we're leaving the
Pacific, we're moving everything back to
Hawaii, California.
Do you think the Japanese or the Chinese are
going to come and take over the Mariana?
Do you ever think about it?
I think so.
Do you ever try to come back?
I don't think so.
What do you think?
You don't think about it.
Okay, you said you worked
for the Yamada Trading Company
company, Nangawa. That was a private store
owned by Japanese and you worked there how long?
You speak louder though. Almost two years ago.
Okay, what years were that? Before the war? I
forgot that. Before the war. Yeah, but two
years? Two years sometime.
Do you remember how much they paid you? Was it
the same thing as Japanese?
Oh, that was very cheap. I forgot about maybe
just 50 yen a month.
Really? And how much would they pay the
Japanese for doing the same job? Huh?
If a Japanese was doing your job, how much
would they pay him?
No, actually no Japanese, they work on the
store, because those Japanese, they work at the
company, the passport company, like government,
government job there.
Now you say when you volunteered to work for
the Jap in the East Navy you thought
you would make more money that's why you took
the job?
No, not actually for the money at that time
because in Nangeo Aluminum
the aluminum company I was with, we made good
money on that time.
You made good money?
good money. Sometime we receive around, maybe
one of us, we receive more than 300 yen a month.
So why did you leave that to work for the
Japanese Navy?
Because that's in Palau, we stay in Palau, but
even you have a money you cannot get a good,
even sometime
even the clothes we not you cannot buy the good
clothes for. So you thought if you
worked for the Navy you would get more food or
clothing? No, food is no problem because you know
they I just single so I don't have a problem
for the food. Yeah. So I just try to get out
and follow
because I know it's become more hard, harder
and harder the job on that time.
The what? The work was going to become more difficult?
They make harder. Sometimes we work from 6:00
until 6:00 at night.
Was that because of the war or was it always
that way?
It was always that way.
Close to the war.
Because of the war. And you thought if you were
in the Navy you would have life easier?
That's how I figure this. When I'm out, it's
more easy.
So you're working how many hours a day for the
aluminum company?
We work more than eight hours a day.
More than eight hours a day.
6:00 in the morning, until we finish.
We cleaned out all the box side of the aluminum
they bring from the jungle to put it down on
the place to wash rug and just pick the rug on
that one too.
Okay, you have to speak louder.
But basically, you were working until what time
at night?
Six in the morning until what time?
6:00 at night.
So about twelve hours a day you were working.
But you made good salary, and you had plenty to eat.
The food is just only local food.
Just local food?
Yeah, local food.
Were you allowed to eat rice or Japanese food?
No, at that time, it's no more rice.
It's only to the native in the halal, because
the working people.
No? Well, the Japanese had rice?
They still have rice from the farm at that time.
But just a few of the three days, just not
selling to the natives anymore.
But before 1942 or 1943 they would sell rice to
the natives?
They would sell rice, yes.
And the natives liked rice? Huh?
The natives liked rice?
Yeah, they liked rice.
Okay, so this is about what, 1943 we're talking
about now? Yes.
Okay, and then they would not give rice to the natives?
They didn't sell for us anything.
Yeah, so you could only eat native foods.
But you had plenty of money. Yes.
But you couldn't buy anything.
I couldn't buy anything.
And then when you went into the Japanese Navy,
you thought you would not have to work so hard?
Is that it?
Yeah, that's how I feel, because I used to be a mechanic.
Then running some engine for like that boat.
Yeah, and you thought that would be easier
than working in an aluminum company.
okay um now you did this interview in 1991 with
Mr Kamisawa and you said you returned to Saipan
at the age of 14 and you stayed there for two
years uh on I interviewed you said four years
so was it two years two years I guess two years
it was just two years first first time was uh
It was the first time when I got up from school
in Angola. At the time it was four years
You stayed four years? Yeah
You said two years in your other interview
I think I was mistaken on that
It was four years
Four years before
You mentioned Izamu Suzuki
Suzuki Isamu
Okay, you worked with him in Palau. Yeah,
because we worked on the aluminum factory. He
worked, actually Suzuki's young, like my age on
that time, so he worked on the store, company store.
Yeah, and you were good friends. He was my good
friend. Okay, because you said that he died recently.
Right, because when I came back to Saipan, that
time when I left Saipan and went to Guam, when
I was in Guam
You were in Guam after Saipan?
Yeah, when I was in Guam, the Suzuki family
came and they see me on that time
I met him on that time
You met him in Guam?
I met him in Guam
Even though he worked in Palau Yeah
So what was he doing in Guam?
He's just a tourist. And that was what year?
1930 something?
You were 16? No, the time they came to Guam was around
sixty-seven, sixty-three, sixty-seven, after
the war. Oh I see, so during the war you
lost contact with him? I lost contact with him.
And you saw him again in 1967. How did you
meet him? He was known when they came to Guam,
he asked somebody, there was know from
somebody whether I living or not so he went
tourist to Guam and he meets me over there.
So did you know he was coming? Yeah. You did?
Yeah. So you made contact via mail?
I received their telephone number and they
contacted me so the time they came to the
airport I went there and pick up
them, came to the house and sent to the airport
again to Palau. Yeah. Then the time they come
back I went to the
effort and bring him again to my house and wait
for the time for the plane to go back to Japan.
So you lived in Guam for a while back in the 1960s?
20 years.
20 years you lived in Guam?
I lived in Guam.
Okay, now did he ever tell you what happened to
him after you left Palau?
I tell him every story.
But did he tell you what happened to him? No.
He never told you?
I'll tell you what happened to him when I lived
in Palau, but after that, you know, when I went
to Japan, I met him in Japan again.
What year was that?
I'm with my upper my eyes it's 1980 80
something so you maintain contact over
the years I mean you lost contact from 1943
until 1967 is that correct
43-67. And you say you saw him for the first
time again in Guam in 1967, or 65? Yeah, 67 or
65, something like that.
Then I, when I went to Japan to appraise my
eye, I meet him again because you know,
when they, you know, from somebody, one of
them, my friend, I think contact him and
this is, I was in Japan that time.
So, between 1967 and 1984 you didn't see each
other again? No.
Did you write letters or no? No.
Okay, that's good.
Okay, you said there was a Lieutenant JG who
came from Papua New Guinea, and he was looking
for some locals to work as sailors on these
wooden dive boats. Yeah.
His name was Wada? Wada?
Lieutenant JG Wada?
I don't know that circumstance, but I know that one.
In the interview it said Wada. You don't remember?
The one that came from New Guinea? Yeah.
This lieutenant who recruited you, we're
assuming it's Lieutenant J.G. Wada,
Did he go with you on those four fishing boats
to Toby Island?
The time that we lived there?
The first time you left Palau for Toby and then
the submarine sank you? Uh-huh.
Was he on one of the boats with you? Yeah.
He was.
But, yeah, he was on the, I guess, Tokyo Maru.
Tokyo Maru?
Oh, let's see, it was from the, by whom?
Yeah, he was on the same boat I was.
Same as you.
Same as me.
Did he survive the attack?
No, I don't know, because before they, the time
they, the submarine was first time, they
They shoot us twice, just only between on that
boat, you know, between two masts, the shell,
on top of the engine room.
There was 2 bullets, it was hit, just passed by
center of the boat, to front of the other boat
on our side.
So the shell went completely through your boat
without exploding?
No, just on the top of the engine room.
top of the engine room and out the other side?
And the other boat on the other side, so the
ability was
down in the front of the other boat.
In the water?
In the water.
Then I saw that in the submarine is that time
because I you know the lieutenant says
everybody they make speed with the boat to just
run away. Yeah.
But when I turned down I saw the submarine and
they were turning around. Yeah.
A bit closer.
Yeah, they're closer.
but my, the boat was, I was, you know, the
engineer, there was, I came to make speed with
the boat.
Yeah. The vibration of the boat just dropped
the governor and that things and died on the ship.
Oh, it died.
The engineers died.
Because he tried to make it go through there.
So I told us, you have peace with me on that
boat, I turned to throw that piece of wood onto
the ocean, then we jumped up to...
Before they fired the second shell, and the
lieutenant was still on the boat when they
fired, and you never saw him again?
I never saw him again.
Okay, were there any women on the boat?
nothing was the other people I saw except for
two different or two Japanese
with a different the other boat. Yeah. But our
captain, our captain on the boat
was survived. He survived? He survived that guy.
Okay. But the, all rest are dead. Okay, now
were there any women on this boat?
before, was a captain. Come closer, speak
louder. That's a woman's wife of Joseph, a
captain of the boat.
So the wives of the captains of each boat, they
had their wives with them? They have a wife.
And what
happened to them? They died too, you never saw
them again? No, no one I saw. Because they
tried to go to Southern, you know, after they
go to New Guinea they try to, if they have a
trip, they go back to Japan, they want to sail
from there to back to Japan.
Now you say, there were eight of you in Palau
who enlisted to go on these boats, right? Now,
you were like
civilian employees of the Japanese Navy? Was
that you? Yeah. Was there a special, special thing?
Civilian employee, like a... Civil service?
Like a civil service of the... What did the
Japanese call that?
They have a special name? Gunjoku. How do you
spell that? Gunjoku, that's how you write down
that name.
Okay, let's go back a little bit. You said when
you left Palau on the dive boats
there were eight of you. Were you all Chamorro
or was it some Palawans and some Chamorro?
There's some...
There's some more... Three...
There's five...
Five tomorrow...
And three a piece.
A piece. And you are the mayor of the crew. Uh-huh.
than three yappies.
Okay. Now, did all eight survive the sinking by
the submarine?
Hmm. Yeah. All eight survived.
All eight survived. And then you returned to
Palau on a destroyer, was it?
Oh, no, a tuna boat. Yeah.
Tuna boat.
Yeah, Tuna boat.
Okay, now, and then you went back to New Guinea
on a warship.
Now did those other Chamorros and Yappies, did
they return with you?
Yeah, they returned with us. We were together again.
They stayed together the whole time? Uh-huh.
Okay. Now, when that American submarine sank
you, how close was it?
Could you actually see people on the deck?
Yeah, I see people on the deck.
When they get closer to our boat, I was between
submarine and our boat already.
Oh, you were? Did they see you in the water?
I don't know because it was already a little
dark, around 6:00 in the evening.
And just I heard that time, they said, God damn
Japanese in there.
They heard the sound of the gun.
At that time, the boat was blown up.
So you could see the Americans on the
submarine, and you could actually hear them
say, God damn Japanese?
They have that. They have that when they shoot.
What kind of weapons did you have on the boat?
Did you try to shoot at the American submarine?
No, because that's only regular. Handguns?
Regular handguns. They have five guns.
Five guns.
Five guns, but we cannot use the guns on that place.
But there were small arms like rifles or what?
There's a Japanese rifle, QQ. It's a 9.9 model.
9.9? QQ? QQ.
How do you spell QQ?
QQ is 9.9. But we didn't use any, no one ever shoot.
Nobody shot?
Nobody shot.
Now, I heard that they gave you a Japanese name?
Yeah, Minami Tetsutaro. Minami.
Minamid, did you have that name in Palau before
or was it when you went to Palau?
No, no, just when you went to the ship, when
you went to the boat, you know, the lieutenant
would give us the name.
Why did they give you a Japanese name?
Because that's more easy to call us, you know.
Easier to call, rather than remember your last
name, okay.
Okay, after the submarine attack, when you got
to the one boat that was still afloat, was
there enough food and water for everybody?
Everyone has six months food.
You had six months of food on there, okay. And
there's enough water?
The water, it's enough water too.
But, you know, the tank, the left over boat,
you know, on the side, you know, the Dachshund
shark, the one, the Dachshund shark, around
that side, around the sea level,
there may be one foot up there's a big hole in
that so that all the when they shoot that
all that water tank inside from a bottom of the
tank just only around 10 inches
deep from the top they're all four so all water
they they came up to the inside of the boat.
So, in the water tank on the boat, you had only
10 inches of water left?
Yeah, on that boat.
Now, you said there was 50 people on four
boats, 25 survived.
The 25th, when you found out about later, you
said he was adrift for 40 days,
and then he washed up on Halmahera Island?
when did you find out about that? When I go
back to Borneo. In Borneo you found out about it?
We went to Borneo. Who told you there that this
would happen? There was a company
stayed there. They told us it's one of the
people he lost. That's the people, that people
they found him in Almejara.
Now what happened to him after Almejara, do you know?
I think they sent back to, I don't know,
different company.
He was a civilian or a military?
civilian too, a Korean guy, oh he was Korean,
okay from the
time that you were sunk, how long before you
reached Toby Island, it's four days,
four days, and then how long were you on Toby
before you returned to Palau, 27 days,
okay and what did you do for the 27th day?
Oh we just stay in Tobe and we just, that place
we didn't drink, we don't have water there.
No water?
No water, they give us, the natives there they
bring the coconut to us every day.
We just drink coconut every day.
Now how did the Japanese get along with the
natives of Tobe?
We don't know actually what they were doing
there because there's a few Japanese soldiers there.
Were there problems with the women? I mean
there were some women on the island.
Yes, on that place. All of them, just old ladies.
The others have left?
Yes, some of them left to Palau.
They're living for all.
I'll cover some place.
Just all the people.
Okay, well you were drifting for...
you were out there for four days
before you got to Toby.
How did you find...
Toby Island is just a very small island.
How did you find it?
There was a dozen songs when we had on that
boat, because my captain on that night.
Let's just start for just a second.
Okay, so you said something about the captain
of the boat?
So that boat, that captain, they took a small
boat, they ride on that boat and go with one
more Japanese, and they, you know, anyway, the
captain, so when they see the star in the
night, they know where the princess will be
Just from looking at the stars, the tap, you
could find Tobe Island?
Yes, because no compass, so they just looked at
night and that night they used that boat and
went to Tobe Island the next day I guess.
So the captain went in a small boat separate
from the big boat?
They took one small boat, they used to be
pulling one small boat every boat there.
So they took that boat and they went to Togo
Bay Island the next day.
So when the Leftover boat, I went there.
When I went there, I tried to make run the
engine, everything.
So we waited for around 3 or 4 days.
then the one captain on that boat is still
alive, so that captain is just
looking the star at night. So after I make that
round and we wait for the last
four guys, they came to the boat. Yeah. They
told me to, okay, make round the boat, then two
hours we run, we saw the whole big island. So
there were two people on little boat who got
there before you?
Yeah, they got before us. And then there's a
captain on your ship by looking at the stars
and knew to go that way too? Yeah. And you
found that for only two hours? You found the island
two hours when I run. Okay.
Okay, when you went to Borneo, you went to Sorong?
No, New Guinea. Yeah, New Guinea. New Guinea,
Sorong, the Sorong Island.
Okay, now, Sorong, and you were there for how
long in Sorong?
We was in the Sorong, so next day we was run
into Kasim, Kasim Island, in New Guinea.
And you were on Kassim for how long?
Kassim for three months.
And you did what kind of work there? Nothing.
Nothing to...
Like a vacation? Every...
Every day was...
We're running.
You're running?
When we hear the...
We hear the plane, they...
Make the...
The siren is gone and we run to the jungle.
Oh, you were bombed every day?
No, not bombed.
Just passed by the plane.
There was...
Passed by...
anyway Japanese plane was passed by on top of
us. Oh, so if Japanese planes would go over and
we don't know because just only there when they
heard the sound of the plane.
So what was that casino to make it so important
for the Japanese?
They try to I don't know what they plan to do
it there because there was nothing there nothing
I don't see anything to read there, for three
months, then I arrived in the destroyer to,
went to Ambon.
Okay, well you said you were in Sorong though,
or maybe it was at Kasim?
Kasim, Kasim.
You were at Kasim? Yeah.
Kasim, New Guinea.
Planes went off to bomb the Solomon Islands.
That's from Sorong, that one.
Sarong, they went from Sarong yeah okay but the
Solomon Islands weren't that was
secured in 1942 or 43 are you sure they were
bombing the Solomons they tell you
that? The time we was there every day, the time
they pass by there on top of us
their plane was go to the to bomb the Solomon
Islands. Somebody told you that you knew that?
yeah okay now Biak was invaded on June of 1944
where were you in in June 1944?
1944? June, the month of June. Biak was invaded
almost the same day that the
Marines invaded Saipan you know Biak is a small
island in Papua New Guinea
do you know where that is? small island? Biak.
Biak. yeah it's near
now it says now when you went to Suran from
Palau and your other story says
you were on a cruiser called the Aoba. Aoba.
Aoba, is that correct? that was a cruiser or
destroyer? Destroyer. It was a destroyer, okay,
and where were you when you heard
about the invasion of Saipan or did you? I was
in Sanga Sanga. Sanga Sanga in Borneo
then that means you were in Sanga Sanga when
Biak was invaded because Biak and
Saipan were invaded at the same time. Nimitz
was in charge of the invasion of Saipan,
MacArthur was in charge of the invasion of
Biak, okay.
So you were in Tsonga Tsonga, and you said
there was one other Chamorro with you on Tarakan?
What was his name again?
Benvenido Regis. Benvenido?
Benvenido Regis.
Okay, how would you spell that?
Now in your other interview it said that when
the Australians landed you were actually asked
to fight, right? The Japanese soldiers gave you guns?
No. They didn't give me the guns, but only hand grenades.
They gave you hand grenades. What were you
supposed to do with the hand grenades?
They just protect us, if we throw at any enemy,
they just throw the hand grenade.
Did you ever throw the hand grenade?
No, I didn't throw.
Okay, so did you get close to the fighting
before you hid in the jungle?
Yes, sometimes, get close to the fighting.
What area of the island? Were you near
buildings or airstrips?
No, jungle.
the jungle in the fighting. Okay.
Now when you went back to Palau from Saipan I
want to just get the
sequence of jobs you had. You worked for the
Yamada company first or did you work
in Angaur? Yamada. That was in Angaur? And you
worked there for two years? Two years. And then
you worked
for who? For Angaur. Louder. From the other
Palawan, they have a money. The Palawan?
Palawan. Actually that Palawan is just from
Peleliu, that guy.
What was his name?
Delemel, Mira Delemel.
He was a wealthy man?
This Mr. Ara Delemel, he was a wealthy man?
He's a, I tell you, he's a guy that got money,
but you know, before sometime they go to Japan,
they learn how to make the business. Yes.
They're going to have to make business, apparently.
They built a store in Nanga'a.
He built a store? Yeah.
Now, what kind of work did you do for him in Nanga'a?
Yes, same thing.
Once I worked on Yamada, I would try to go out
to see the customer to see if they had some stuff.
Like a salesman, huh? Yeah.
And after that, you worked for him for how long?
That's the one I worked for him for almost five
years because, you know, after that he's the
one that built they buy the sailboats and the,
on the island to make the, make to be, put an
engine to make the boat.
Oh, that's where you, he built the boat and
that was to go and collect copra from the
different islands.
That's right, yeah.
And that's where you learned how to work on
ship's engines? Exactly.
So that was your education, I guess, huh?
Just only one month, I was, you know, the
mechanic there, they were trying to teach me
how to run that engines.
Just only one month, we went around all over
Palau and after we come back, they just gave us
to myself.
So one month and you knew how to run that engine?
I knew how to run that engine already.
And you did that for five years?
And then after five years you left to work for
the aluminum company? Yeah.
That was Nanyo Aluminum?
Nanyo Aluminum Company.
Now why did you do that?
Was it because it paid more?
It got more good pay.
Very good money.
But you were working twelve hours a day.
No, that's only the time they get close to the war.
Before that was eight hours a day?
Eight hours a day.
And then as the war got closer, you were
working more like twelve hours a day.
Six days a week? Seven days a week?
Seven days a week.
So you join, you become a civilian member of
the Japanese Navy to have an easier life, Huh?
Work on engines again.
What about the conditions on the POW boat?
were on a ship with 4,000 men going from
Morotai to Japan? Yeah. What were the
conditions? You had plenty to eat and drink?
The food is so, because only by group of people
there was on that ship.
They had plenty of food? They had plenty of
food. Were there armed guards? Were there
people with guns watching you? No, no. No? They
trusted you then?
Because the war was over, they figured the
Japanese were not going to cause problems?
No, no that. Nothing around that.
Your sister from Yap, she came back to Saipan
before you. What was her first name?
Soledad. Soledad?
Soledad Sablan.
Soledad Sablan Sepeda. She was married already.
So we were together in the Palau.
You were?
We were together. Before the war, he went to Yap.
Why did her husband go to Yap? He had a job there?
No, one of the friends, they offered him the land.
Land in Yap.
Do you still have any contact with Japanese
friends from before the war?
before the war. Do you still have Japanese
friends? Okay, how did you get involved in the
Japanese stragglers on Anatahan?
At that time, I worked for the government here,
in Saipan. I used to be a mechanic.
okay that's the Navy Navy okay then that's a
commander Johnson commander
Johnson yeah he tried to maybe soldiers because
there are some Japanese here
there was a they stayed here after the war
because they were married to
tomorrows? Yeah. Okay. So Commander Johnson
tried to look for somebody. Try to speak louder.
They tried to look for somebody to run the
engine to go to another hunt. What kind of boat
was it? It was a two-cylinder boat, almost
35-40 foot long. Was it a fishing boat?
No, fishing boat. So, they look around, so they
found me with a, they came around that boat.
Then, they took us two days and two nights, I
didn't sleep.
You didn't sleep?
We, I make round about here, we leave here evening.
In the evening?
Yeah. Then next morning we leave, we miss Amatahan.
So we circled around and we run and from the
back we tried to circle around the island and
that the time we saw the five Japanese.
Saw five Japanese?
Five Japanese was there.
So everybody they call out, you know, that boat
we put a Japanese flag on it.
But we call out but never stop, they just keep
running and run back to the jungle.
They ran back? Yeah.
Then, we go down to the front, the place there
was, there used to be people, they
stayed in the town before. Yeah?
So, we took the rubber boat and take everybody there.
The five Japanese, we came from the one, we
came from the Saipan. Yeah.
We unloaded all the stuff there, food, drink,
and they went there.
Then we started to keep one more round for the boat.
And by the time we came to the east side of the
Natahan, we saw one Japanese again.
But we saw that and tried to catch him, but no,
they ran back into the jungle again.
Then we went back to the place where the
Japanese stayed, they lived there.
Oh, you went back to the beach where you lived,
and the Japanese were still there?
Oh, they stayed there, okay.
Well, I saw them.
So they took the anchor and shut off the boat
and go out.
I saw the five, the two, sit down there. Yeah.
And there only we saw one guy and one, they
came out.
That's the one, Sir, Kazuko, the lady.
Kazuko, the lady. Yeah.
Okay, but when you dropped the supplies off and
then circled the island. Yeah.
While you were circling the island, the
Japanese from Saipan stayed on the beach? Yeah.
They did to see if anybody would come. And so
Kozuko was the one who came down. She decided
to go back.
Then they bring to the ship, at that time there
was one of the Japanese, you know, the Japanese
from Saipan.
They around on that place and he saw that some
place there they have a machine gun, but no
people. I think it was wrong way.
So, when they bring in the Kazuko to the ship,
they talk to the commander-in-chief about the
machine gun where they saw it.
Then commander-in-chief says, okay, so you go
back to the, and bring the other Japanese back
to the ship, and they told our captain to tell
me to run the engine.
Now, the captain told Kazuko to go back and get
the other Japanese?
The Japanese, they bring the Kazuko back to the
ship, and they bring back to the ship, you
know, the other Japanese that the commander
Johnson about the story of the machine gun, so
they tell to the Japanese again, okay, so you
go to the rubber boat and bring the other
Japanese back to the ship.
So I, that the time I just make the engine
start running again.
And so everybody come and just flatten the CV,
bring up the anchor, and lift.
Okay. So you didn't try to get the other Japanese?
No. We didn't try to get the other Japanese.
Did, when the rest of them finally did
surrender, were you there? Uh...
They surrendered what, a couple, a year later?
later? After, later they assumed that no, no
one of us was. Okay. Because that's why I think some
marine from Guam, they went there too. They got
them. Okay. What can you tell me about Koziko,
the girl, did she talk to you at all? Yeah, she
told me about the ship. That's why they
They really had to come out because they said
there was still...
That's what Koziko told you.
That's what Koziko told me about that.
But she decided it was time to leave.
Because, you know, at that time there was a
burned Leopoldo bomb here.
So he held a pen and he held a bomb and they...
Oh, and they were bombing practice.
not bombing practice, they were burning, they
burned the city, oh burned the bombs here
and then the second, they hear the explosions
so they say oh there
was still fighting, that's why they escaped to
come here, okay I think that's it.