I see your TV, you're probably more hands
On Campus with your host,
ACU vice president and dean of campus
life doctor here in a couple of tears
here
on campus today,
we're pleased to welcome back again a
very special friend, Cynthia Roland
Maclure.
Cynthia, thank you for being back.
It's good to see you. It's good to be
back here.
We've always enjoyed I've always enjoyed
the times we've had a chance to visit
before.
I want to go back and pick up on a couple
of those things and we're going to kind
of carry forward for that time because
your own personal life experiences
have so many are provide
so many insights for other people
in so many ways.
And those who remember our
earlier visits will remember we've talked
about your own struggles with anorexia
and bulimia and your book that
you wrote in the title, The Monster
Within.
I think the last time we had talked
to you had just written that book and it
was just coming out.
So let's pick up at that point.
How have you found the response
to that book?
Well, that book is in its eighth printing
and it just keeps being published.
It is saving lives and it's touching
lives. It's a very intense book.
I'm learning from parents that it's a
very scary book when they read it,
because the book identifies
why I was bulimic, which
had to deal with my family and my family
had to come into therapy.
And I get letters all the time,
every day. You know, I'll get at least
one letter to 30 letters a day,
depending on the month from women
who have read it, who feel that there is
hope. And I think it's a book.
It's going to be around for a long time
because this is a problem that's that's
going to be around for a long time.
You know, sometimes we I think we hear
people use terms like eating disorder
and you can kind of pass over with the
sort of a phrase like eating disorder
and and not get too concerned
about things. But I'd like for you to
take just a minute and explain really
what you're talking about.
This is not just some minor kind of
thing. And sometimes if a person hears
that you need to watch your
your daughters, because it does find
itself much more prevalent in
in what age group and what group of
people women.
I mean, obviously women.
And usually it starts the end of high
school. College.
College is the major place, I think,
where most women start the behavior.
A lot of parents and I guess
a lot of people who know someone has
bulimia. I've heard them say it's just a
phase or they'll tell a girl it's just a
phase. You're going through it.
And what people don't realize is
bulimia becomes an addiction.
And the person that has
bulimia, which which means she is
addicted to dieting, she binges,
she purges in purging, meaning
self-induced vomiting, laxatives,
exercising excessively,
fasting for days on time,
but just being generally obsessed
with dieting.
A lot of parents think, well, that's just
a phase. And what they need to realize is
that person is not dealing with
something. Usually what I find
is if our personal life is out of
control, then we take the control with
our body.
And as you said, a lot of people just
kind of pass over it.
But we're talking about something that
can kill you.
I had it for twelve years and I
was numb emotionally during that time.
I mean, I just I was numbing myself with
the bingeing and purging and starving.
And when I finally found professional
help, it was then that I realized that
the bulimia was a symptom.
And underneath the symptom, there was a
lot of anger and sadness that I had to
deal with.
When you say you had it for twelve years.
Yes, but describe for those
who haven't heard, you just talk about it
before what was really going on.
Well, you know, is a typical day.
A typical day at the very
end of my addiction was absolute
obsession with eating.
I mean, every fleeting second was what
can I eat next?
I was a TV news reporter at this time.
And, you know, I love my job, but yet I
had this secret addiction.
Also, a typical day would be I would get
up in the morning. I exercised very
excessively, not eat anything.
Or if I did, it'd be a dry piece of
toast, go to work.
And in the afternoon there was what I
always called my monster.
It would kind of click and it would say,
you know, destroy yourself.
And I would run up and I would buy
six candy bars and just rip
open the packages and just stuff.
I mean, just not even taste them.
You just eat them. And the minute I hit
my stomach, I would panic and I was
afraid I'd get fat.
And so I would start popping laxatives
all day. Around five o'clock, I go
to the 7-Eleven store by twenty dollars
worth of groceries, meaning popcorn,
candy, you know, hot dogs,
whatever I wanted, I ate and I got more
laxatives.
And then after I ate all that food, I go
to a cafeteria, eat an enormous
meal, and then I go back to work,
usually sick, but I would go on to work
and after work I would stop at a chicken
restaurant in three McDonald's on the way
home.
I mean, I was I was eating
so many calories, you would not believe
it. I mean, people say, how could you do
it? I don't know.
All I know is I always look like I was
nine months pregnant.
There were ten. When I ate so much food
that my body ate because the muscles,
you know, were pooled and
then I was addicted to laxatives,
literally addicted to them, and by the
time I was 28 years old, I was taking
up to 60 to 100 a day.
And now I'm even alive.
I don't even know, you know, people might
hear that and say, oh, she's
exaggerating.
Nobody is going to eat 20 dollars worth
of food and take 60 to 90 laxatives
a day. And you're talking about that was
really that is the truth.
And the thing is, the
tragic thing about being bulimic
is I couldn't tell anybody
because they wouldn't believe me.
And when I did go to doctors and say I
can eat six candy bars in three
minutes, they would go, oh, that is
gross. You know, stop it.
Ah, you do what I mean, no one would
really believe me.
And so it's an
embarrassing addiction because, number
one, you don't want anybody to know that
you throw up or take laxatives or, you
know, starve yourself. You don't really
want anybody to know.
And so it's a very lonely addiction
because it's an embarrassing one, too.
And the phenomenal thing about this is
you you were then apparently going on TV
every night in front of the whole world,
or at least the local citizenry.
And no one was able to even be aware
of what you were going through.
The people I worked with in the NEWSROOM
had no idea.
I mean, they had no idea.
My boss had no idea.
When I finally took a leave of absence
to get help, he was just amazed.
He just could not believe it.
But that is the remarkable
thing about bulimics, is we know how
to wear the mask.
We look good.
We act the part.
We're great actresses, but deep inside,
we don't like ourselves. So we we do the
secret addiction.
And then on the other side of us, we
look very normal and healthy.
You know, people say, why didn't anybody
know? And one of the things that
frustrated me was when I when I finally
did get into therapy is why didn't
anybody see?
And because physically I was
deteriorating.
I really was I would lose weight, gain
weight, lose my weight, just fluctuated
all the time.
And my complexion was was bad.
But I look back and I always wore
suits that covered my stomach, covered
my body. So nobody really
noticed that I gained weight or lost
weight. And
my biggest problem was I couldn't tell
anybody. And so, you know, why didn't
anybody know? Because I didn't tell them.
And, you know, I think some parents are
friends, perhaps, of someone who might
be having some of these same experiences.
Now, I would say, well, believe me, I
didn't notice if somebody was eating
half a dozen candy bars or
taking handfuls of
laxatives every day and going through
that, I'd be able to tell.
But the point is, you can't
do no bulimics are very,
very intelligent women.
You know, I knew when to time my
addiction. I knew when to eat.
I knew when not to eat, you know, because
I had to work and I wasn't about to let
the addiction get in the way of my work.
But another thing, though, was I
was single and I was alone.
So I live by myself.
So no one, you know, no one knew or
saw me.
But there are some instances a lot
of parents have said, I have bought
I'll buy one hundred dollars worth of
groceries. And in two days those
groceries are gone and they know their
daughter has come in and eaten all the
food. So, you know, there are some
that are there crying out for help.
I mean, they're really giving the
message, you know, please help me.
But for me, I was afraid to reach out for
help and I didn't want anyone to know.
At the early stages
of your experience, I think we probably
must not as a society, have known nearly
as much about this phenomenon
as we do today. Would that be fair to
say? And also people like you have helped
through your your speeches and
your books helped make people aware
of this. Right.
So surely we must there must be a greater
just general awareness of it in our
society. But still,
what would be the things you would say to
parents about are there
any particular early warning signs
or things to watch for that you might
that might otherwise sort of go
unnoticed?
Well, you know, you're right.
When you said that we didn't know much
about it when I had it,
there was no name for it until
I was I had the addiction from sixteen to
twenty eight.
And when I was twenty five, I read an
article and it was it was called
Full Stomachs, Empty Lives.
And it had the word, believe me, and it
was me to a T.. You know, and I take the
article, that's me, that's me,
that was me.
And it dealt course with the symptom of
the bingeing purging and so it did.
The medical professional finally
made a name for the addiction.
But what can
parents do? You know, one of the things
that I encourage parents to do whenever I
talk to parent groups is don't focus
in on looks with your children.
You know, the world is really obsessed
with looks. I mean, it's OK to say, oh,
you look pretty or, you know, but focus
in on talents, focus in
on their gifts, because a lot of
parents tend to be more obsessed with the
kid's looks than they are the heart,
you know, and the gift inside.
And parents just need to be aware that
there's. A lot of pressure for girls to
be thin, and if
they see anything that's abnormal that
they see, there's a tendency to to stuff
that may mean that they're eating too
much and they're stuffing their feelings.
The parents just need to be aware that
they need to communicate with their kids,
you know, what is healthy and what is
not. And if the kid is doing something
unhealthy, then they need to say,
let's let's talk about this.
Let's find out what's going
on. It's not healthy to
not eat, you know?
I mean, it's healthy eating good food and
have a well-balanced diet.
It's unhealthy to not eat or to be
obsessed with eating.
And parents need to recognize that
because of your own personal experience,
as you were talking to an audience, let's
say, of college students, do
you feel like you have have developed the
ability to be able to detect sometimes
a girl who comes up to you that she is
going through this that other people
might not even notice?
Yes, I think because, number one, I
was there and I've just talked about it,
you know, to the group, I
can usually tell by their eyes, you know,
because they come up to me in those eyes
are sad and they're kind of lost.
And of course, immediately when they see
me, they usually cry, you know, without a
doubt, you know, the girls that really
have it are just so emotional
about it.
So, yeah, I can usually it's kind of a
kindred spirit there that they
relate to after especially after hearing
you speak, I guess that they think she
knows what I'm going through.
Right. Because, again, you know, I talked
to some girls this morning and it's
embarrassing, you know, who do you tell?
And so here I am saying
this is where I was at and I know some of
you were there. Now, what are we going to
do about it? And they feel safe.
You know, they feel safe with me because
I'm I'm open about it.
Well, you said the doctors told you,
well, that's stupid. Don't do it now.
And the girls talk to you.
What do you tell them to get help?
You know, the bottom line is it means
they're not dealing with their life.
It means that something's not working.
It means that they have probably
childhood conflicts, parent conflicts,
anger, sadness, maybe some trauma.
I'm finding, Gary, at least
a half, maybe just under half
the bulimics that contact me have been
sexually abused as children
and see the bulimia, the body,
they're numbing themselves to not deal
with the abuse.
And the bulimia is self-destructive.
They're destroying themselves because
they feel bad, they feel damaged.
And so that's protecting them to deal
with this, the incest or abuse
or whatever.
And the rest of us, you know, for me,
there were a lot of childhood conflicts,
abandonment. I had some very severe
trauma as a four year old,
messages, perceptions, all that.
And I had to deal with it.
And that's what I tell them.
I tell them, you need help, you
need to get therapy.
I said I was going to say, when you say
get help, specifically what kind of help
they need to find a therapist or,
you know, a friend or a counselor
or a minister, but somebody
who knows what they're doing, they can
get in touch with why they're
self-destructive.
I encourage therapy because I think
a good therapist will know about family
dynamics and how to to get inside
that person's heart to deal with what's
wrong. So I'm a real firm believer in
therapy.
I really am willing to take a break for
just a minute. There are a lot of other
things that have happened since this
book. And I want us to talk about some of
those. OK, we're visiting today with
Cynthia Roland Maclure.
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We're back on campus and continuing to
visit with Cynthia Roland Maclure,
your first book, The Monster Within.
We were talking about it.
Now you're in the process of completion
and publication of a second book.
Could you tell us a little about.
Sure. It's already completed.
I did it this summer.
Yeah, it's already done.
The publisher has it back.
Your book also did my first book and the
title of it is called The Courage to
Go on Life after
Addiction.
I get a lot of letters from people who've
read my first book and say, Are you
really well, you know, are you really
well? See, a lot of
lot of places in the world say
that you will have to live with bulimia
the rest of your life.
I don't believe that.
And I'm living proof that you don't have
to.
I was sick. I found help the
professionals help me deal with what was
wrong. And then it was up to me to deal
with my life. And that's what I chose to
do. And I've been well for seven years.
So I've written a book.
It picks up right where the first book
left off and it goes through.
I quit my television career to
lecture and write a book course.
At the time, I didn't have any idea what
I was going to do, but it's on my
individual struggles with my faith
and the people I met along the way
and their stories.
Two years after the bulimia, I
was hit with breast cancer and the book
is about that. And then I met my
husband to be and it's about our struggle
because we met right when I was hit with
breast cancer.
So it's a it's really a story of
of going on.
It's a story of, yes, life hurts, but
what am I going to do about it?
And it's a story about the love
that I found in my life.
You know, one of the things that
I appreciate so much about you is
not only do you represent
the ability to overcome struggles
and difficulties in life, but you also,
I think, encourage people just by your
own example to be able to talk about
those things instead of keep them closed
up and buried down inside and
not want anybody to know about that.
And I find that's difficult for a lot of
people, a lot of people.
Do you find that people respond
to the fact that in
the same way that I do, that they
appreciate your being able to talk
about things like bulimia
and breast cancer and struggles
for marriage and things like that?
Yes, I do. You know,
one of the problems I think, in a lot of
families is we keep the secrets
alive. In other words, you know, the
messages I received is don't tell anybody
your problems. You know, keep it to
yourself. Work on it yourself.
Well, that message nearly killed me
because I'm a human being with feelings
and emotions, and we need each other.
You know, I believe God made us to
love each other and to need and for
some reason, we're kind of afraid.
And we wear these mask and we say
everything's going OK and it's not.
Well, I live that mask.
You know, for twelve years I had that
mask on and I decided
to take it off. And what I have found
is when I am honest and I'm very honest,
you know me, I'm very honest.
When I'm honest, then then
the other people feel safe to be honest.
And then when you're honest, you can be
set free. You know, I really believe
honesty means freedom.
In other words, when I say I hurt, then
maybe you can help me.
You know, when I'm lonely, maybe you can
you can be my friend.
It's it's the process of saying I
need and I do that.
And I think people really responded that
there were so many students.
This morning I spoke in chapel that said
I'm going to go get help, you know, and
not only I don't deal just with believe
me, I deal with a lot of things.
And there just there are so many kids
that are alone in their struggle because
they've been told, trusting God, don't
tell anybody your problems.
And when I am saying is I don't believe
God wants us unhappy.
And if we're unhappy, we need to find out
why. And that's where professionals
come in. That's where friends come in.
So people do respond to my my honesty.
Yes.
And I think, as you said, even people
who haven't had bulimia
can respond to similar kinds of behavior
with other kinds of addiction or other
kinds of problems in their lives that we
found. Yes.
That to be true.
You on my book, you can take off, believe
me, and put anything you want to put
there, you know, any addiction, any any
symptom, because I believe
in addiction, whether it's bulimia,
anorexia, alcoholism, drug addiction,
it's a symptom.
And that person is not dealing with their
life. You know, some people say you're
born that way. I don't.
I have a real problem with that.
I think environment and our personalities
and trauma and messages contribute to why
we're addicted people.
So I deal with.
Everybody I mean, there were kids, you
know, there was I was at college a couple
of weeks ago and there were two young
men that were struggling with
homosexuality and they had never
told anyone.
But see, I get up there and I say, some
of you're struggling with that.
What are you going to do? What are you
can do about it?
You know, it's a symptom.
Let's let's find out why you're
struggling with this.
So it's really wonderful
to know that maybe with my openness,
they can be open.
You know, I can find help.
I've heard you talk about this before,
and so I know you are
comfortable talking about it.
Could you?
Talk for a few minutes about what it was
like finding out that you had
breast cancer and how, you
know, the reason I'm asking is
because I think a lot of people don't.
A lot of men I spent a lot of husbands
and fathers don't really
understand and probably need to
understand better.
Yes.
Well, you know, one of my struggles
when I had bulimia was my femininity.
I was the son of the family.
So I was the career person.
But I was very afraid of my femininity
because of some things that happened in
my childhood. And through therapy,
I realized that it was OK
to be a woman. It was OK to be pretty.
Yes, I was attractive.
And after the bulimia, I really liked
being a woman.
It was great.
I just loved it.
And then I fell in love
with David, who was so
precious and so special.
And during the three months that we first
met, I wasn't feeling well.
And I found a lump on my left
breast and I went to the doctor and the
first doctor said, it's nothing, which
I tell you, second opinions are so
important because I did go to a second
doctor and it turned out to be cancer and
I lost my breast at 30 years of
age. You know, that's supposed to happen
to 65 year old women or 70 year
old women, you know, not 30 year olds.
And David and I, you know, just
being in love, he had to determine,
do I really want to go on with this
relationship? You know, because when you
have cancer, you it may come back, you
may die, you're going to struggle.
I lost my breast, but
we worked it out.
We talked about it and he fell in
love with me.
You know, this so body's going to go one
of these days, you know?
I mean, when I'm 50, I'm not going to
look the same way I do now.
And I realize that. And he realizes that
and he realizes that it's my
heart that he's in love with.
It's me. It's Cynthia.
It's not that I have to breast
or, you know, two legs or I'm
a whole person because of my heart, not
because I don't have a breast.
And we talk about it.
We were always talking about
our feelings. And so for husbands and
boyfriends and anyone that has a
mate or a loved one
going through that, it's just so
important to make them feel beautiful.
You know, David, I have opted
not to have reconstruction at this time.
I've been through so many surgeries.
I just don't want to go through that
pain.
And I wear a prosthesis.
And David
David would like for me to reconstruct
because he feels like it would make me
feel better. And we talk about it, you
know, and he he wants that.
And maybe one of these days I'll do it.
But the point is, it doesn't matter.
You know, he he loves me for me.
And that is what is so
important, because we live in a society
that says, you know, if we don't like
something, let's leave.
You know, the commitment is just
so far gone and so many people's lives.
And David is committed to me no matter
what.
You know, it's interesting because this
the recurring theme that
came out of your bulimic experience also
comes out of this because you were
earlier saying parents need to let their
children know that
they're special for more reasons
than just the way they look on the
outside. And it's the same thing you're
saying husbands need to let their wives
know that they love them for more
reasons than just the way they look.
That's right on the outside.
One of the things that I did when I was
believing is my worth isn't based on what
I look like. And that's my worth was
based on what I look like, you know, all
of during my 20s.
And then when I was here with breast
cancer, it was like, oh, you
know, devastation.
You asked me what I felt, what I went
through. You are absolutely devastated
because no one, you could die.
And I was just beginning to live
and I didn't want to die.
No. To the devastation
of you losing a part of your
body, that to a woman is very precious.
I mean, let's face it, you know, we nurse
our babies.
It's a sexual thing.
It's an attractive thing to men.
And that's very devastating, especially
thirty years old, you know, not being
married or whatever.
And so it was it was really tough.
But I had to tell myself,
Cynthia, your worth is not based on what
you look like.
And three weeks after I
had my mastectomy, I was swimming.
I went out swimming.
And it didn't bother me at all
because I know me and I know that
that isn't what's really important,
you know? And of course, I think
I share with you that I had surgery two
weeks ago and now I.
I have a scar across my stomach.
And, you know, I have all these these
scars, you know, on my body.
And I and I hurt sometimes because
it's just not very attractive.
And my husband said to me, I mean,
last week I just cried and I told him I
was sorry.
And he said, Cynthia, as long as I have
you, that's what matters, you know, as
long as I have you.
And so as a result,
he makes me feel beautiful because
of me.
And so I don't worry about it.
I don't worry about it.
I grieve. I mean, sometimes I hurt.
Sometimes I grieve. Sometimes I miss my
breast. I do.
But my worst isn't based on that.
And I, I have to go on.
Unfortunately, though, everybody hasn't
found a David in their life yet.
Have.
To let them be reassured about
how how they
can be a person of value beyond
just the way they look today, and it
seems like our society in so many ways
is sending signals through
commercials and movies
and everything about how important it
is, the way you look and the way your
hair looks and the way you dress and
all of these things. And we're winding
up missing. What's really important about
relationships?
It's about communicating
how people are value
are just the very thing you said about
the kind of compliments we give people in
itself since that kind of signal doesn't.
That's right. And that's right.
And that's why I talk
openly about what I've been through,
because I want people to know that
life goes on.
Whether or not, I mean, I can get
hit by a truck tomorrow and maybe my face
will be gone.
You know, my my worth isn't
based on what I look like.
And those that don't have a day that they
need, if they have low self-esteem, they
need to find people who will will tell
them that they're wonderful.
You know, Cynthia, I have to say there's
I think a lot of people can listen to
your story and say, well, that's that'll
be enough for me to just give up.
Just quit. Why do you want to keep going
on fighting through all of what you've
been through?
Did you think about giving up?
Well, I think when I had
bulimia, I wanted to give up because
I felt that there was no hope to overcome
it. And then once I overcame it, I wanted
to live.
No, I.
I didn't want to give up.
But I
guess I just have a strength within me.
And I think I think God,
I think I thank God that
I have been through what I've been
through because I am
a deeper person.
I'm a more compassionate person.
I value life more than
I ever have done before.
I look at I look at
my losses, if you will.
I look at that as a choice.
I have a choice of giving up and being
bitter or I have a choice to turn it
around and I have chosen
to turn it around.
I have chosen it to use to touch people.
And so in that sense, I think God,
because when I was 15,
I am not where I'm at right now.
And had I not had breast cancer, had I
not had an addiction, I would not
understand why people hurt
and why people are dying.
And I think the Lord has has
used my hurt to help other people and
I have chosen to use it.
So in a way, I wouldn't trade.
If you would say if we could go back,
would you would you not want to go
through that? And I would say no, I'd
want to go through it because I'm a
better person because of it.
There's something else I think it's
important out of this, and
that is that sometimes people, when
they're hurting, they begin to
think everybody else needs to be helping
me.
But through your situation, we
see a person who is hurting, but you're
spending your time still helping other
people and reaching out instead
of sitting back and saying, well, with
all I've gone through, a lot of people
need to have a lot more compassion
for me and be helping me.
Right. And so forth.
Right. You've turned it around.
Yeah, I have. And I think I take care of
myself.
I have my support as my husband
in my church and friends that love
me. And I can go to them when I'm I mean,
you know, I'm not superwoman.
I may look like Superwoman, but I'm not
I you know, I have struggles, but I,
I always go to people that I know will
listen to me and help me through it.
So I'm never alone.
And of course, I
guess I'm never alone.
Sometimes we are alone and and
that's when my faith is very strong.
And I realize God has brought me through
so much. He's given me David, I'm
alive today. And look what happened today
at chapel, you know, I mean, it's like,
yeah, it's OK.
It's OK.
Well, it's better than OK.
It's been really great to have a chance
to visit with you.
I'm sorry. We're already out of time.
It's always good to visit with you.
Always good to be with you.
Be back again. We look forward to future
visits. Thank you.
And thank you for being with us on campus
with Cynthia Rolan Maclure.