See your TV, probably more hands on
On Campus with your host, ACU
vice president and dean of campus life,
Dr. Gary McCaleb.
Here's Gary.
On campus today,
we're pleased to welcome a very special
guest, Mr. SSAFA Fumie
from Astute Egypt.
Welcome to Abilene and thank you for
being with us today.
Thank you. I'm really enjoying the chance
to be here for the first time in my life.
I was in the United States several
times, but this is my first time.
I enjoyed very much to attend
the lectureship.
Also, you live in a
fascinating country of Egypt,
and yet it seems that most of the time,
I suppose, when people think of Egypt,
they are familiar with Cairo,
Egypt and with the Nile
and perhaps not
as familiar with with the rest
of the country.
And when I say you're from astute
Egypt, many people might
not be familiar with where
you would be located.
Could you help us understand
approximately where the city of a shoot
is?
Yeah, I see.
Is considered the third
biggest city in
all Egypt.
And it's in the middle
exactly between Cairo
and Luxor.
Luxor is very well known.
City was very well known.
Also saw a spot in the middle
as soon as its population is
about three million to it's
not by any means a small city at
all.
It's a very, very big, very big city.
Three million people.
Yes, Cairo would
have about how many people today?
What's the population of the world's
population in the evening or in the
morning?
In the evening?
It's about twelve millions.
In the morning.
It's about seventeen millions
because of people coming in.
Yeah. To the city for trade or
for trade.
For work. Many factories slow
the second week or
so.
Usually many people come to the city also
for business work.
And since a suit is the third largest
city in Cairo, is the first in Alexandria
is this is the second largest city.
Much of the population of
the country of Egypt has always seemed to
center right along the Nile River.
Is that continue to be true today here
still.
And
Egypt is
ninety six percent desert
and four percent agricultural
land and also agricultural
land besides the Nile.
So majority of
people used to live besides the Nile.
When we think of Cairo, we were beginning
to hear when you think of even
13 million people
living in a city, the reports
are that it is the population
has now exceeded the
ability for the city, as we sometimes
say, infrastructure, the
the plumbing and the utilities and
the streets and the things
that that city at one
time was built, uh,
for the people.
The city has grown so much that it's just
exceeded its ability to take care of it.
Do you see signs of that in Cairo?
Uh, Cairo,
as we know,
as as an Egyptian, we know that
gateways highly polluted
because of
the increasing number of people.
And
there was a new plan began
ten years ago to build
many new cities
not so far from Cairo,
just to encourage people to leave
Cairo City itself and move
to these new cities.
Uh, Cairo is about
more than one
thousand years old.
Mm. Uh, so when
it is designed, when it was designed,
it was designed for two millions only,
but now was designed
for two million and now has thirteen
thirteen million at least.
Yeah.
So it is far exceeded
the number of people that it
was designed for.
So in what ways do you see
the problems then become
visible to the people.
For example in housing
there's a big shortage in housing,
housing and what are the people doing
because of the shortage.
Where do they stay as they begin to leave
Cairo? They began to think about
the new cities, all the
new towns or any of those new cities
being developed at this time
of the.
On 6th of October
and the
Mubarak city in a suit,
a new city or the new town,
all these new towns fifteens
of me, all these are
new towns, three or four,
not more than 30 miles far
from Cairo.
Are they just still
along the Nile or a no no.
In the desert. In the desert.
In the desert.
And the government
is encouraging people very much
to go to these new cities and
live in by giving them
small apartments with a very cheap
rent and all
the facilities there.
So people began in the last
five years only began
to think about living in some
places far from Cairo
because Kaylee's became a big problem.
Do you travel to Cairo very often
from a shoot?
Yeah, once or twice every month.
So could you give
an American who has never been to Cairo
a description of what it
is like to drive along a street
in Cairo, let's say at a
busy time of the day?
Every time in Cairo is busy time,
beginning from seven o'clock
till 10:00 o'clock in the evening.
We we see rush hour in
the United States.
Every hour in Cairo is a rush
hour, beginning from seven o'clock.
So for a one kilometer
distance, you may spend
about half an hour in the taxi,
all in the bus.
So if you are
going to visit Cairo,
Cairo is a very safe city.
As all Egypt, you feel very safe.
You can leave your home at six o'clock,
you can return in
the morning. You can return to your home
at 2:00 after midnight,
and you feel very safe.
But it is very crowded.
So all transportations
many times stuck together
and you feel as if
nothing is moving.
But people who are living
in Cairo who used to
enjoy
this style of life,
but the A who used to
make everything quickly will find that a
little bit difficult.
But he will enjoy the sightseeing around
Cairo, especially in the early morning
or at noontime, which is
between three and five o'clock at noon.
Usually people prefer to have
a nap because of the hot
weather in Cairo.
And I'm I must say that
I want to affirm one of the
points you made, because many people
in America might be
suspicious of what you said about that.
It's very safe because generally
speaking, we hear advice
that in the very large cities, you have
to be careful. But I've had the
opportunity to be in Cairo on three
different occasions and have always
been able to walk along the streets at
night, walk off the main streets
and into the streets, and there
is really no danger of
being attacked
or robbed or anything like that.
A person is really extremely safe
considering all of the factors.
I was in some places like Manhattan
downtown, six o'clock
in the evening.
I couldn't feel that I'm safe at all.
And one of the things,
of course, that everyone thinks of when
they think of Egypt and are
the remains of the great periods
of the golden age,
as they call it, of the pharaohs and
and the things that we've heard about the
treasures of King Tut and the pyramids
and the Sphinx and things like that.
And of course, to a large extent, I
suppose many travelers, many tourists
come to Egypt to visit those sites
and to go to the Valley of the Kings down
near Luxor, which is just
below, are just further south
from you.
But we also are hearing reports
that that
the some
of the pyramids, the Sphinx and other
things are slowly eroding away
and that they have taken some new
restrictions to keep
tourists in certain
areas around the pyramid in the Sphinx
in order to try to protect them and to
not allow as much,
maybe as many people
to be close to them and things.
Have you seen some of those things
happening?
Yes, I saw many
of those things happening for
many reasons.
Some some of
the. It goes to those areas,
abuse, dealing with these ancient
places, so you can find
him crafting his name
on the walls or
on the statues.
Uh, and
what what is mentioned about
all these ancient places sometimes
is much exaggerated
just to make people stand
away from abusing
or misusing
these ancient
buildings.
Are we consider or concerned about
all these buildings?
Our is it
brings tourists
to Egypt foreign currency,
which helps a lot in
developing the economy of
our country, which is facing
a difficult times since
the last war between Egypt and Israel.
Uh, but
the government is really
spending a lot of money doing many
efforts to make
tourists come enjoy
everything without conducting
any of these buildings or
statues, all ancient places.
Uh, do you have many
tourists come to our shoot?
Yes, some traditions
that says Jesus and
his mother, Mary,
lived for a while in a cave
to assume about five miles
from a city.
So many tourists used to come
and visit this cave and,
uh, see
the dishes and
places and
where Jesus and his mother used
to sleep in many
things like that.
And then you get some travel, I suppose,
of people moving from Cairo down to
Luxor and the Valley of the Kings
and yes, that area.
Yes. Moving back and forth.
What are the what are the typical
kinds of work that the people
in I shoot do as far as their jobs
are concerned?
The majority of people
are government employees,
teachers, doctors,
engineers.
Uh, but but even in all of
those jobs, they're employed by the
government. Yes.
Yes. Do they're not independent?
Not as they might be in the United States
system here in the United States is most
of the jobs are owned by
people in
Egypt. The majority of jobs, maybe
more than 85 percent,
is on to the government.
And so when they're building the new
cities that you talked about, it would
make it easier for the government to
encourage those jobs or create those
jobs in those places and people to move
there.
This is what's happening now because of
there is a big
unemployment in the last ten
years.
So the government began to encourage
people to leave the big cities
and find jobs in the new cities
or in the new towns.
And that helped a lot and
will continue to be.
Is it is it your
impression that the typical citizens of
Egypt like to have
tourists from other countries come there?
Or do they do they wish the tourist would
all go away?
Uh, yes.
And no question is,
yeah. Very good.
Very smart question.
Uh, uh,
uh, people as an Egypt
as an ancient country
has specific traditions,
um, which doesn't
fit to all tourists.
Uh,
so it's this
sometimes offends
people in Egypt,
especially in Hotta
because of the way they dress, the way
they because the way they behave and
because they hugging each other,
kissing each other in the streets
and something like that.
Right back after this break.
We're visiting today with Mr. Safa
Fahmy.
You know, by
the way, they
want to
travel.
America, America is
burying itself in over half a million
tons of trash every 24 hours,
if you're not recycling, you're throwing
it all away.
We're back on campus and continuing to
visit with Mr. SSAFA Fumie from
our shoot Egypt there.
One of the things that keeps Egypt in the
news so much, I think, at least in our
country, is the constant reports
that we hear about the tension that
exists between the Arabs and the Israeli.
And from time to time, little outbreaks
of violence occur with some
form of terrorism or shooting or
some things like that.
And not too long ago, there
was a case of a bus
in which some terrorists attacked and
shot. Some Israelis headed back
to Israel and several
were killed in that form
of tension.
For a person who is living in Egypt,
is it something that you're aware of on a
day to day basis or
or would you say it's
exaggerated for in the
American press?
Well, American press
can exaggerate and
can
and what to call it.
Play it down. Lay it down.
They are very smart in doing that.
Uh, it's a mutual
tension, in my opinion.
And it's not it's
not new or modern.
It's very ancient.
I think
Sadat was a smart enough to
begin one
of the biggest steps
toward better understanding
to the Israeli situation,
and that that pushed
all Arabs, although they
rejected his,
uh, step in the beginning.
But after a while, they began to
accept it. I think
most of them accept it now.
What is?
What effect the situation now, in my
understanding, is.
Still, there is misunderstandings
for many issues.
What we see now is action and the
action
action for the Arabs and the actions
for Israel, actions
from Israel and the actions from others.
I think still they
need enough time to sit together.
And to talk openly
about the major issues,
in my opinion, as a minister, I don't
think that the major issue is political.
You don't think it's political?
No, this is my opinion.
What do you think the major issue is?
I think it's a religious
or doctrinal
issue
between Muslims and Jewish.
Hmm.
When I say Muslims, I mean
the issue through an Islamic concept,
when I say Jewish
are always about
the Jewish history
and their view about the
land, the prophecies,
the many prophecies they
have about the land
and who will own
the land from where
to where it will be.
And, uh,
uh, the Dome of the Rock,
the Temple of Solomon.
I think the issue is in
my in my opinion, it is
not mainly all
historically a political
issue, because this
is this is my my own opinion.
I at the present time
and you mentioned, by the way, Sadat
and at the time of his
assassination that struck
the entire world with the with the
assassination of Anwar Sadat, did
do you feel that created a set back
in what might have been a
developed if he had been able to continue
in the direction he was going?
In my opinion, uh,
Sadat, the system
or technique was used to shock
the world every now and then
just to present the shock.
And in my opinion,
he used to analyze
the actions afterwards, a shock
and choose the second step,
which is different from Hosni Mubarak.
Hosni Mubarak is
completely different from Sadat.
He's not a man of shocks.
He's a man of thinking, evaluating
very well, in my opinion.
He is he is a very wise person.
And he looks for
the bright future,
not for Egypt only,
but for all the Arabic world.
He believed that if Arabs
united together,
stop wasting their money
in collecting weapons from
everywhere in the world
to destroy Israel in order
to defend themselves
against Israel,
he believe that if they use
this money
and and develop
the relationship between each other,
that will create a bright future
for whole for all the
Arabic, uh,
area.
So in my opinion, he
is he is
walking in the same road
of making peace with
Israel, but what
we call it failed peace,
fair, peace, peace,
peace.
It's fair for both the Arabs
and the Israelis. Yes.
Well, that's I think that's the approach.
We hear people say from time to time that
that each says that
the Israeli says that Arabs want peace
on their terms and Arabs say but
Israel wants peace on their terms.
And and what you're saying is it can't be
on Arabs terms are Israel's terms is
going to have to be a peace that's fair
for both Arabs and Israelis.
Yeah. And what what
is your proposal or how would
you see as a spokesman
for what you hear the people
of of Egypt saying about how
can this be resolved?
What are you saying? The way Mubarak is
going is the way people feel good about
the leadership he's providing there?
Yes. Yes.
People has.
Are you optimistic that
a peace can be reached?
In my opinion, yes.
Yes. I think it may be reached.
And will that be soon or will that be a
long time?
If it will take a long time, in
my opinion,
many of the leaders in Israel
are old fashioned leaders,
and this will take
a long time for them
to accept the
views, the different views
and discusses a different
feel is. About making peace.
They have, I think, since 1948,
one view.
One idea about how
peace can be accomplished,
and this was right maybe at 1948,
but now with a very fast
changing that's happening
in the world, especially in the
Arabic world, I think
these views became very,
very old.
Nasser Gamal Abdel
Nasser, 1952,
but three knows.
Now, talking with Israel, no
relation with Israel, no peace
with Israel, so that came up 1973
and 74 and he said
we can make peace so that you change
it 100 percent.
And Mubarak
after the assassination of Sadat,
continued the peace.
Ronald.
And I think
if both sides
sit together, take
enough time to discuss
every issue.
I think you'll remember two years ago or
three years ago issue,
they sat together several times.
It took a long time
and they invited refreeze from different
places.
As they went to Lahai, they
discussed every little detail.
And then finally they
came to a conclusion
that Israel accepts the conclusion,
accept the final judgment and
probably take back to Egypt.
So in my opinion,
if they spent enough time
to talk about every little
issue.
I'm sure that time peace
will cover all the Arab world
and Israel and everywhere in the world,
to what extent do you think Mubarak
represents the thinking of the
other Arab nations?
And he's very different.
I think that's what I was going to say to
so. So if if
he is approaching peace
in this approach, how well
do you expect the other Arab nations
and their leaders to accept
his leadership or the direction he would
like to go?
And Mubarak is not
an Elvis person, in
my opinion.
He is very mature person.
He's very wise.
This is my opinion about him.
And I really have deep respect
to him.
What happened in the last five
years
that many of Arab leaders
began to appreciate
his evaluation
to different issues and
his view about many issues.
So.
Although and in spite
of their rejection to his view
after the assassination of Sadat,
many of them now began to accept
his view about the way
we can make peace with Israel.
As you travel around from a shoot,
perhaps down to Luxor to Cairo
in the area around Cairo,
do you ever since
fear that some terrorism
attack might occur or that something
like that?
Do you do you feel there's a sense
of of
of fright that people are afraid
something like that is going to happen at
any time? Or do people go about their
daily lives
without any fear about that?
Well, the main feeling in Egypt now is
from the economic situation,
the fear, the economic situation,
economic situation is
is not good.
We import 80 percent
of the wheat from
Australia, Canada and the United
States and
the cultivated land.
Is decreasing,
also, the population is very
fast increasing.
And
many of.
Many big majority
of people in Egypt are really afraid
from the economical
issue.
It's a big problem now, but
we're almost out of time.
But I was going to get back to one topic
we talked about earlier.
All of the archeological things
that have been discovered over the years.
Do you feel most of the
things have been discovered or is there
much more yet to be discovered
through future digs and through
future excavations?
In my opinion, what was discovered
until this moment is not
more than 10 percent.
What is hidden underground,
do you think there's much more yet to be
discovered?
It's very much more much in any
particular areas, like in
Luxor, in Cairo
and Giza, in
many other places in Delta.
What kinds of things do you think there
would be other tombs like that to
tomb tombs, ancient temples,
uh, ancient
palaces even
further away
from Cairo and S9
and Aswan?
Or do you think there are still.
Yes.
Things to be discovered all along that
many hidden is underground?
To what extent are excavations going
on at the present time?
I really have no idea.
So there's not if there was a lot
of it going on, you would be aware of it.
You see evidence of it.
I hear every now and then last
month I heard about discovering new tombs
beside the pyramids
and I heard about discovering new tombs
in Luxor.
So I hear every now and then, but
I don't really follow
up in detail
what's happening.
We're out of time, but it's been a
fascinating opportunity to have the
chance to visit with you and for you to
tell us about your country and what's
going on with the people of Egypt.
Thank you for being with us.
And I look forward to having the
opportunity to visit with you again.
Thank you. I'm very glad to be here in
Abilene Christian University.
I'll be glad if you come and
visit me in a suit.
Egypt, I hope I have that opportunity.
And thank you for being with us on
On Campus with Safa Fumie.
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