Christian Messenger (Bonham, Tex.), Vol. 7, No. 4, Ed. 1 Wednesday, January 26, 1881 Page: 4 of 8
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CHRISTIAN MESSENGER.
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that they may also obtain the sal-
vation which is in Christ Jeans
^5 BURNETT. Editor, iwith eternal glory.” Tim. ii. 10.
* __ Baptist—That seems to contra-
WEBNESDAY, JANUAKY IS, 1881. diet my position, but I am sure
ance of the saints! I am for Paul, he apostatized; if it refers to the
Christian—Paul teaches the same eleven, it teaches that it was possi-
doctrine. In his letter to the He-' ble for them to apostatize. Inei-
things pertaining to the kingdom
of Christ here and hereafter! How
welcome the words of cheer they
THE OLD LANDMARKS.
DIALOGUE between a baptist
AND A CHRISTIAN.
* CHAP. VI.
none of the elect will ever go
back so far as to become sinners
again. There will be a little spark
left.
Christian—Peter seems to con-
tradict you. Tie say3, “For if after j
they have escaped the pollutions j
Baptist—I think the doctrine 0f the world through the knowl- j
of final perseverance of the saints edge of the Lord and Savior Je-
a very comforting doctrine. sns Christ, they are again entan- j
Christian—No doubt it has com- gled therein, and overcome, the j
forted many persons. But does latter end is worse with them than
that make it true? The Univer- the beginning; for it had been bet-
aalist has a comforting doctrine ter for them not to have known the
also—much more comforting than way of righteousness, than after
yours. Sometimes error is more they have known it to turn from
palatable than truth. the holy commandment delivered
Baptist—But the doctrine of unto them. But it is happened
universal salvation is a plain per- unto them according to the true
version of the Scriptures. proverb, the dog is turned to his
Christian—The doctrine of own vomit again, and the sow that
final, unconditional perseverance wae washed to her wallowing in
the mire.” 2 Pet. ii. 20-22.
Baptist—My preacher says that
does not refer to the elect, but to
! in the wilderness, and failed to perseverance. Now read the othand: Frances sink into the soul! How
i reach the promised land, he says 6tli verses: “I am the vine, ye are; brethren and sisters are drawn to
“Let us therefore fear, lest a prom-
ise being left us of entering into
liis rest, any of you should seem
the branches; he that abideth in j him by the thousand little cords
me and I in him, the same bring- of love that entwine themselves
eth forth much fruit; for without j about his heart! What a joy to'
to come short of it.”
lltli verse: “ Let us labor there-
fore to enter into that rest, lest
any man fall after the same exam- i men gather them and cast them
pie of unbelief.” 1 into the fire and they are burned
Baptist—Are you sure that Paul j Baptist—I will have to sur-
I? "
of the saints is a perversion of
the Scriptures also, as I shall show
you. ‘ - .
Baptist—You talk with much sinners, because Peter illustrates
assurance. This is one of the with a sow, and not with a sheep.
Baptist strongholds. God can They never were sheep,
keep his saints from falling away Christian Peter is illustrating
when they are tempted. apostate Christians, for he says
Christian—He did not keep the they had “escaped the pollutions
angels from falling away from of the world through the knowl-
their first estate, and he did not edge of the Lord and Savior Je-
heep Adam and Eve from falling sus Christ,” and had “known the
>away, in paradise. way of righteousness.” They are
Baptist—You do not mean to [like a sow—first foul,than washed,
say that the angels in heaven apos- J then into the mire again. If he
tatized? ’ is not talking about persons that
Christian—The Book says, “The were washed and cleansed, and
angels which kept not their first then returned to the mire of sin,
Jf estate, but left their own habita- there is no meaning in the lan-
tion, he hath reserved in everlasi- gn&g® he nses.
ing chains nnder darkness unto Baptist—That sesms to be a fair
the judgment of the great day.” exposition of the passage. But
.Jude i. 6. Also, “For if God even then, there is no proof that
spared not the angels that sinned, these persons will be eternally lost,
but cast them down to hell,” etc. Christian—Yes, there is, for Pa-
2 pet. ii. 4. ter says they are in a worse con-
Baptist—But a Christian man dition than at first, and that it
is better than the angels. “had been better for them not to
Christian—Then the Book is have known the way of righieous-
ineorrect when it says, “Thou hast ness.”
made him a little lower than the Baptist—Can you furnish a text
angeW* °f S<y*ipture that makes the en-
Baptist—Man was made a lit- trance of the saint into the ever-
tle lower than the angels, but he I luting kingdom dependent upon
is higher when he becomes a anything he can do ?
Christian; he is higher th«.u Ad- Christian—Yes, many of them,
am was in paradise. Petei* writes to those who had
Christian—1Then it was not a “obtained like precious faith with
misfortune when Adam sinned us” as follows: “And besides this,
and fell. He fell up, instead of giving all diligence, add to your
down! God ought not to have faith virtue, and to virtue knowl-
punished him for bringing about edge,” etc., “for if these things be
s better state of affairs! in you and abound, they make
Baptist—Well, I am sure a you that ye shall be neither bar-
Christian nftm not away, ren nor unfruitful in the knowl-
Neither height,no depth,nor things edge of our Lord Jesus Christ ;
present^nor things to eome, nor but he that lacketh these things ia
angels, nor principalities, nor blind, and can not see afar off, and
powers, can separate him from the hath forgotten that he was purged
loye of God which is in Christ Je- from his old sins; wherefore, the
sns. He is in Christ, and nothing rather, brethren, give diligence to
i»«n get him out. make your calling and election sure;
Christian—He can get luke- for if ye do these things, ye shall
warm, and God will spew him out!, never fall; for so an entrance shall
He can separate himself from the be ministered unto you abundantly
love of God, by ceasing to do the into the everlasting kingdom of
will of God. The Savior says, our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ
have some other points of Baptist
doctrine which I wish you to ex-
amine. If I surrender the faith
of my fathers, it will be when I
have made a thorough investiga-
tion.
Christian—I will assist you all I
can. There is nothing'lost by ex-
changing error for truth.
PEN "PICTURES.
almost convinced me that a Christ-; with the spirit and understanding
ian may apostatize and be lost. I j the song of praise to Calvary’s
Lamb! What joy to see sinners
come to Jesus and hear them make
the good confession! Yes, there
are joys as well as sorrows. If we
think of our trials, let us compare
them to those of the blessed Sav-
ior, and realize that we “have not
yet resisted unto blood.” If
we appreciate joys, seasoned with
sorrow-here, we will be better pre-
l pared to appreciate unalloyed
gladness over the river.
C. McPhebson.
__ ___ «
Waxahachie, Texas.
preachers’ joys.
And in the me ye can do nothing. If a man tell them of the sufferings of the
abide not in me, he is cast forth as dear Redeemer; to point out to.
a branch, and is withered, and them the gate that stands ajar; to
portray the glorious resurrection!
What joy to see Christians grow-
ing in grace, to see them love the
addressed that language to the render that passage. You have j word of God, to hear them sing
saints?
Christian—Yes. At the begin-
ning of the 3d chapter he calls
them “ holy brethren, partakers of
the heavenly calling.”
Baptist—Does the ‘rest’ spoken
of refer to heaven, or to the church
of Christ and the Christian dis-
pensation?
Christian—It refers to the
heavenly Canaan. These He-
brews, to whom Paul wrote, had
already entered into the church of
Christ. The Israelites are a type
of a sinner coming out of the land
of bondage. Moses is a type of
Christ, the Red sea a type of bap-
tism, the wilderness a type of the
Christian’s pilgrimage, Jordan a
type of the river of death, and
Canaan a type of the “rest that
remains to the people of God.”
As some of the Israelites fell by
the way, and never reached the
promised land, so there is a fear
lest some of the saints of Christ
shall “fall after the same manner
of unbelief,” and never reach the
heavenly Canaan.
Baptist—Can you furnish an-
other text to establish this one ?
Christian—Yes. Paul, in the
same epistle, chapter 2d, says:
“Therefore we ought to give the
more earnest heed to the things
which we have heard, lest at any
time we should let them slip; for
if the word spoken by angels was
steadfast, and every transgression
and disobedience received a just
recompense of reward, how shall
-ly
;3g
we escape
Life is a thing of variations.
There are joys and sorrows, tri-
umphs and defeats, encourage-
ments and trials. Every one who
passes through the space between
two eternities, must experience
these changes; and, it would be
strange indeed, if the preachers
were an exception. However, one
class of humanity looks upon them
as favored beings who realize
nothing but pleasure, while an-
other class regards them as objects
of pity that everybody observes,
and imagines that they have left
all joys behind, and are passing
through time destitute of all hap-
piness.
Then there are preachers who
seem to look on the dark side* of
every picture, and hideous night-
mares seem to encircle them at
}
every step. Is either extreme cor-
rect? While it is true that the
preachers have their trials in
common with other mortals, yet
if we neglect so great j they have p bright side of life.
MORE EXC USES.
‘If ye keep my commandments,
ye shall abide in my love.”
Baptist—Saints may sin, but
they will never be cast away.
Christian—Then Paul did not
speak truly when he said: “I
keep under my body, and bring it
It is here expressly taught that if
Christians will add these graces—
will “do these things”—“they shall
never fall;” and an entrance shall
thereby be ministered to them in-
to the everlasting kingdom. And
Peter exhorts them to give dili-
salvation?” And in the 6th chap-
ter he teaches that it is possible
for those who have “ been enlight-
ened, and tasted of the heavenly
gift, and been made partakers of
the Holy Ghost, and tasted of the
good word of God and the powers
of the world to come,” even, to
“fall away.”
Baptist—I am astonished at the
teaching of Paul. My minister
says he is the great Baptist preach-
er of the New Testament.
Christian—He is very heterodox
on some points. And James is no
better. Read the last two verses
in his general epistle: “Brethren,
if any of you do err from the
truth, and one convert him; let
him know that he which convert-
eth the sinner from the error of
liis way shall save a soul from death,
and shall hide a multitude of sins.”
Baptist—That seems to teach
that James’ brethren might apos-
tatize so as to be in danger of
death.
Christian—And the Savior
taught the same doctrine. Read
John, xv: “I am the true vine,
Who is so readily received into
the house of kind hearted breth-
ren rb the man who is using his
abilities for presenting the word
c/it God? His brain may be weak-
ened by over-work; his limbs may
totter with ago, his clothes may be
shabby,or his ability may be small,
but he can always find a mother,
or kind hearted sister, who will
receive him with Christian hos-
pitality. If he •has done his duty
in teaching the brethren that the
Lord loves & cheerful giver, and
that the laborer is worthy of his
hire, he will receive a respectable
support for his labor. If brethren
are not prompt in meeting their
engagements, or fail to do their
duty in remunerating, it . is not
their fault but the fault of those
who are their teachers. One of
the preacher’s joys is seeing this
teaching take effect. Let me give
one example: A friend, with many
faults, many weak points, and or-
dinary ability, went to a place to
labor in word and doctrine. He
did the best he could, which was
little. At the expiration of a year,
into subjection, lest that by any gence to make their calling and
means when I have preached to | election sure!
others I myself should be a casta- j Baptist—My preacher says the
way.” 1 Cor. ix. 27. I calling and election of the saint is
Baptist—That does not mean1 sure anyhow, whether ho gives dil-
thst he would be cast away so as j igence or not.
and ray Father is the husbandman; brethren gave him what they
every branch in me that beareth | promised and ten dollars over.
j not fruit, he taketh away.”
| Baptist—That was spoken of
unfruitful branches, like Judas-
j it had reference to Judas.
Christian -Then Judas was in
Bro. Burnett :
My attention has been called to
a correspondence published in the
Fannin County Advocate, of Jan.
15th, between Rev. Alderson and
myself. As I am no man for re-
ligious controversy in political pa-
pers, and as your people are re-
ferred to in said correspondence,
I ask space in your paper to state
the facts in regard to this whole
matter. It is briefly as follows:
Rev. Alderson came to Virginia
Point and challenged every per-
son to debate with, him on the
baptismal question. Baptist
brethren asked me to reply. He
next went to Savoy and made the
same broad challenge, after which
I met with Bro. Holman in com-
pany with Bro. Huffer, who told
me of this broad challenge, saying
some one ought to meet it. I re-
plied: “I am willing to meet it,
and would be glad to do so.”
Bro. Holman said, “Write to him
and accept his challenge.” I said,
“No, he will not meet me if I
write, for he remembers how I
exposed Dr. Ditzler at Pilot Point,
and that theP edoespaid another
man fifty dollars to reply. But do
you write keeping back my name,
and I will be on hand.”
Bro. Holman did eo. Some
days passed without any word
from the Rev. Alderson.
Thinking Bro. Holman’s postal
card had failed to get a hearing,
I opened correspondence with
Bro. Alderson. Now notice how
he tried to get out. To Bro. Hol-
man he says: “While I did not
specifically limit it, (the challenge,)
the whole matter was intended for
them (Christians) and not you.” I
am not fighting the battles of your
church, but I do say if the Rev.
Alderson wants a debate with your
people, he can find at least one
hundred as willing souls as ever
breathed in Texas in your church
for whom he would hardly make a
breakfast spell. But if the chal-
lenge was made for your people
alone, why was it made at irgin-
- Point, among Baptists and
■wi
■
. i
§§y
- ,* j
to be eternally lost. The salva-
tion of the elect is sure, and with-
out any conditions.
Christian—Then Paul was again
in error when he said: “I endure
all things for the elect’s sokes,
Christian—Your, preacher differs
from Peter. You had better fol-
low the inspired teacher.
Baptist—Peter is a Campbellite.
He is not sound on the design of
baptism, nor on the final pereever-
He began a second year’s labor.
During that year he received as • „
tokens of esteem from his breth-j Methodists? To me he says,
ren and friends, besides his prom-j suggest that you wait to if your
I Christian -Then .) udas was m; isetl pay, above forty dollars’ worth j ability to meet any one is «ndore-
i Christ, and apostatized, for it says!of presents that were needed, andicd by their (Savoy chnr^selee^
“every branch t« me." And Paul ] is now on his third year. Bnt the; mg you, as their champ»«fc ||Jj>
savs “If any man be in Christ, he! joys of a preacher do not stop his next he says, JUptigt
y ’ with his pay. How pleasant pastor ^Bro. Holman) there and i
to be with brethren and sisters
in Christ in church and social
is a new creature
Baptist—I reckon it hardly re-
fers to Judas.
Christian—If it refers to Judas,
have a perfect understanding in
regard to it.” Thus he 1
relations, and talk together of place the Savoy church
mm
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Burnett, Thomas R. Christian Messenger (Bonham, Tex.), Vol. 7, No. 4, Ed. 1 Wednesday, January 26, 1881, newspaper, January 26, 1881; Bonham, Texas. (https://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth904538/m1/4/: accessed July 4, 2024), University of North Texas Libraries, The Portal to Texas History, https://texashistory.unt.edu.; crediting Bonham Public Library.