Sandra: Okay.
So, today is June 30th of 2016,
and we're here with Dr. Guadalupe Quintanilla,
in Bellaire, Texas, right outside Houston.
And I'm Sandra Rodriguez she's Samantha Rodriguez,
and we're here with,
the Civil Rights in Black and Brown Oral History Project.
Now, Dr. Quintanilla, do you accept to be interviewed
and have this interview be uploaded on the internet?
-: Absolutely.
Sandra: Okay, good.
So, we're just gonna start with easy questions.
They're not hard,
but I wanted to know when and where you were born,
and to tell us a little bit about your childhood.
-: I was born in a little town called Ojinaga, Chihuahua.
My grandmother used to tell me that I was a (indistinct),
because supposedly bunch of year I was born in Chihuahua.
And when I was working on my paperwork for immigration
to the United States,
at the agents thought I was saying Okinawa,
and it's actually, Ojinaga.
It's a small border town...
It's a small town in Chihuahua.
And this is what I was born.
I grew up in Sonora,
Guerrero,
Jalisco,
I grew up in Mexico in different States.
Samantha: Why did you move around?
-: I was real by my grandparents in Nogales, Sonora.
My grandfather had a store.
He worked for the government, he was a customs agent.
And my grandmother ran the store with my help, supposedly.
And I remember as a child, she used to put boxes
and I used to climb on the boxes to make calls
for what we needed.
And at first the providers would not believe it
because I heard the voice of a child.
I was doing this at six years of age,
until my grandmother told them that he was real,
that I was the one ordering the merchandise for the store.
So, I have a nice memory to those times.
And then we moved to Guerrero,
because my grandparents had two sons,
my father and my uncle,
and my uncle was studying medicine in Jalisco,
in Guadalajara, and when he finished,
the government send him for a year,
which is what the government does in Mexico.
That's why medical school is so inexpensive,
because when the students finish, they have to give a year
of service to wherever the Mexican Government sends them.
And the government sends them, obviously,
where doctors are more needed.
So, when he, my uncle, finished the medical in Mexico,
then, in Guadalajara he was sent
to a little town in Guerrero
called San Luis San Pedro, Guerrero.
It's about probably an hour and a half from Acapulco.
And he, my uncle, called my grandfather and said,
now it is my time to take care of you,
come and be with me in this little town.
So, my grandfather sold the store
and we went to this little town.
I remember that we could get in a car all the way
to Acapulco, but then from Acapulco to San Luis,
there were no roads.
So, we went on horseback.
And we got to the town,
and this little town had no running water, no lights.
The houses were made out of dry palm leaves,
and there were no streets.
And there were animals loose,
cows and pigs and chickens all over the little town.
It was a very small town but there were towns around it,
and he had a beautiful river, going by,
and the beach was about, maybe 30 minutes, 40 minutes,
going on.
(speaking in foreign language)
He taught me, my grandfather, taught me how to read,
how to write and how to do math,
that I already knew because of the store.
And in Nogales, I went to school to the first,
to (speaking in foreign language),
for about four months and then we moved.
So, and then the little town didn't have a school,
so I didn't go to school,
but because I was the only one who knew how to read,
I started a little school, and I used to teach the children
in the little town how to read and how to write.
I went back a few years ago and a lot of my pupils
are grownups with children, of course,
and grandchildren, but they remember me.
So, it was really pleasant to see them.
So, that's part of where I grew up.
Then my grandfather was losing his eyesight.
He was becoming blind.
(clears throat)
And so, we left and we went to Guadalajara
and my grandfather opened a store again.
He wanted a store and he opened a store again.
Then we lived on Guadalajara for a couple of years,
and I was helping my grandmother with the store,
but then he became almost blind.
So, we came to Brownsville.
Sandra: What were your grandparents' names?
-: Guadalupe.
That's because my name is Guadalupe El Rosa Leo.
That was my grandparents--
Sandra: You came to Brownsville.
-: We came to Brownsville.
By then I must've been 12 or 13,
and when we got to Brownsville,
we came looking for medical help for my grandfather,
because he was blind by then.
And then a few months later,
my uncle came also and his family to Matamoros.
They moved into Matamoros
when the paperwork was being arranged.
My father was already in Brownsville,
my father, and he remarried.
So, my father and the woman I called my mother,
they were living in Brownsville.
So, my grandfather, my grandmother,
and I went to Brownsville with my grandfather,
and my uncle stayed in Matamoros.
Anyway, there's this stereotype that floats around
in schools and it still does, unfortunately.
And that is that Hispanic parents in general,
do not really care about the education of their children.
And I think it may be furthest from the truth,
we care a lot.
We just have a different way of showing it sometimes.
And that's what leads people to think we don't care.
And that is because, in a lot of the Latin countries,
teachers are considered the second parents.
And it is considered disrespectful to question...
To go to the school is considered
to be as if you're questioning the teachers.
And that is interpreted here as, you don't come to school,
you don't come to the PTAs, you never ask questions,
so you don't care.
And also, another thing is,
many, many, many of our families,
especially from the lower socioeconomic,
who are struggling to survive, do not have transportation,
has to take care of their family at night,
when PTAs are taking place, and many do not have the
opportunity to go, and they're working night shifts
or taking care of the children and,
or are intimidated by the fact they don't the language.
So, all of these things give a message that you don't care.
And so, all of these to tell you,
when we got to Brownsville, my parents,
the first thing they wanted to do was take me to school.
It was the first thing they wanted to do.
They wanted to take me to school.
Well, I had never gone to school except for a few months,
in pre-K, and I was pretty worried and very scared.
Well, they did take me, and then in school in Brownsville,
Russell Elementary School in Brownsville.
And I remember that whenever they took me to a program,
and I was given an IQ exam.
I score so low, that IQ exam, that I am classified,
even today, as a mentally retarded person.
Because I scored so low,
I'm not even supposed to be trainable.
Now, a lot of publications have written about me
because it's a human interest story besides everything else.
And Reader's Digest wrote my story in 1984, I think,
and Reader's Digest, the investigators are,
I keep saying that they're more thorough than the FBI.
And I have been investigated by the FBI many times
because I have failed very important
positions in this country.
So, (laughing) they do send researchers
and if they cannot verify by three different sources,
what you tell them, they don't print it.
So, they went through my hometown, Brownsville,
they pulled my records and sure enough,
I'm still retarded, according to the records.
Now, at the time, the only way to measure a child ability
or talent to learn was via exams
of the kind that I received.
But what was not very clear to people was
that the exam was in English, I spoke only Spanish.
How in the world could I do that?
Well, even now, many of the standardized exams
have questions that are not relevant to the region
where the student grows up.
For example, I'll tell you in a minute but,
going back to my story.
The sad part is that I was told,
the sad part is that I believed it.
I believe that I was told
I didn't have the ability to learn.
And the sad part is that I believe it.
Not that people told me, but I believed.
And also, the sad part is that my parents did not know
enough, as many parents today do not know enough
about standardized exams that their children
receive in school.
They know my child is taking a test,
but they didn't understand the results.
My parents thought she got a 67 on the test is higher
than a 50 is closer to a hundred, so it must be doing okay.
And many parents today do not understand the results
of the standardized exams exams.
They don't understand what the score means,
they don't understand.
And so, they don't have the background knowledge
because many, many of our students are first generation.
And it isn't that parents do not care,
parents care and parents want to support their children.
They just haven't had the opportunity to learn.
Anyway, so, my parents did not know.
And I was placed in first grade in the school.
And those were very painful times for me
because I was already 12 or 13, I don't remember,
and children used to make fun of me.
These were little children,
and they didn't understand why I was there.
The teacher decided that I wasn't able to learn.
So, my job was to take the children to the restroom,
to cut little paper dolls, to face them on the wall,
and whatever the teacher told me to do,
and to wait in the classroom
until when the teacher took children in recess.
And I was not allowed to go with the children and recess.
I would wait in the classroom,
and I'll tell you why I dropped out of school.
Because one day I was waiting outside of the classroom
for the teacher to come back,
and I saw this man who walked into the school.
And he said to me (speaking in foreign language).
Which means that,
do you know where's the principal's office?
And I was so touched and so excited and so happy
to hear somebody speaking the language of my soul,
the language my grandmother spoke, the language my mother
spoke, and the language I could understand.
And I told them, (speaking in foreign language).
And I don't remember what else I said,
other than, the principal's office is this way.
And all of a sudden,
here comes a teacher, and she was furious.
And she grabbed me by the arm
and she dragged me to the principal's office.
And both were very angry at me.
And they told me all kinds of things.
I didn't understand one word they said,
but what happened to me was
I could read their body language.
Now, research is telling us more and more every day that,
Hispanics and African Americans in general,
we read body language very effectively.
We don't need to be told many times, we see.
And that's what happened to me.
And I was so deeply embarrassed by the incident
that the next day there was no force on this earth
that was gonna make me go to school.
Which is another facet of our culture.
I tell my students at the university,
if you can find the word for, to be embarrassed in Spanish,
I'll give you an A in the class.
We don't have one.
We are so sensitive in the Hispanic world
to being embarrassed.
The language doesn't even allow
for the feeling to be expressed.
(speaking in foreign language), that's to be ashamed.
That's something will cause ourselves to be embarrassed.
Somebody else's causing us to feel that way,
and we protect ourselves by not having it.
The closest one is embarazada,
and that means to be pregnant,
which is also an interesting indication
of how the language reveals the culture.
Anyway, so--
Samantha: How old were you
and what year was it that you--
-: I was probably 50s.
Yeah, I was early 50s, probably.
Samantha: And were your teachers angry or by...?
-: Unfortunately, no.
No, in Brownsville, 90% of the population,
95 used to be Latino.
I don't know now, my sister still lives there.
Anyway, I have a sister and a brother.
I have a brother who lives here.
Anyway, so, I cried and cried and cried,
and my grandparents convinced my parents
and I dropped out of school, in first grade.
My grandmother said she was gonna teach me
everything I needed to be successful in life.
And you can figure what it was,
cleaning and cooking and ironing and washing dishes.
She used to make me wash dishes three or four times
because she would come and touch them and they had grease,
and we didn't have hot water, like we have now,
with the forces, you just open it and it's hot water.
And, I remember that she thought that was all I needed.
And so did I.
That's all I needed.
And I stayed home.
I got married very young and I had three wonderful children.
And I thought that was all there was to life.
There's a very old song in English that says,
is that all there is.
You're too young to remember, but is that all there is.
And I thought that was all there was to life,
being married, I didn't drive, I didn't speak English.
My grandfather and my grandmother came to live with us.
My husband had a home when I married him.
And my grandfather told me, you're going to marry this man,
because my husband had a job, stable,
and he already had a home and my grandfather knew him.
And so, he said to me, you're going to marry this man.
Sandra: What was his name, your husband's?
-: His name was Cayetano.
And so, I married, and he used to bring the groceries.
I didn't speak English, I didn't drive,
I only went out with him.
And my grandmother and my grandparents lived with us
and I thought, this life
Until my children started going to school.
And then the school system decided
that my children were Yellow Birds.
Sandra: What's a Yellow Bird?
-: This is something interesting
for the civil rights movement.
At the time, to be nice to the children in Texas schools,
or at least in Brownsville,
we didn't call the children slow learners,
We didn't call them dumb or retarded,
We call them Yellow Birds.
And the bright ones, and the smart ones,
and the college bound ones, were Red.
But the system decided mine were Yellow.
You don't have children, yet,
but when you have your children, you're gonna realize,
nothing hurts a parent more than if a child suffers
or if a child has a problem.
The problem is you have hurt your parents
more than they hurt you.
And I remember I used to cry every night
and because I thought my children
inherited my inability to learn.
And I used to be very, very, very upset,
because I blame myself.
And then I started noticing more and more every day,
how my children were learning the prayers
that I was teaching them, and the songs that we were singing
and the games that we were playing.
And all of a sudden I decided, the system has to be wrong.
The system has to be wrong.
But it took me a long time,
which is something that still happens,
a long time to take the courage to go to school
and talk to the teacher.
Because I went through all the anguish
that I know parents go through, even today.
I don't have anything to wear, I don't have transportation.
But much more, I don't speak the language,
but most important,
who am I without an education without the language,
without anything, to question the system?
They know what they're doing.
But I went, I finally went, and I got to the classroom
and the teacher, her name was Mrs. Castro.
And I looked in the classroom
and I talked with her a few minutes
and I realize that every single Yellow Bird was Hispanic,
and I could not find the Red Bird that was Hispanic.
And I asked the teacher, Mrs. Castro,
(speaking in foreign language).
Why all the Yellow Birds are Hispanic?
And she said, that's the way it is.
That was the answer.
That's the way it is.
Well, that wasn't good enough for me.
So, I went back home.
It took me another three days to get the courage
to go talk to the principal, Mrs. Kathleen,
Russell Elementary School in Brownsville.
Her name was Mrs. Kathleen.
And I went and she spoke Spanish.
And I talked to her and I said, but Mrs. Kathleen, why?
(speaking in foreign language)
Well, that makes some sense to me.
If the classes are in English and you speak Spanish at home,
you're not developing the language.
That made sense to me.
And I said, okay, so that's the reason?
I'm going to learn English.
And she said, okay.
Now we know that if the children develop two languages,
develop the brain better and faster.
At the time, we thought that speaking Spanish
was keeping them back.
Even when I started teaching at the university of Houston,
even your parents' generation,
we went through that generation
that was not speaking Spanish.
(speaking in foreign language)
So, they wouldn't have to go through the hell
that they went through.
Because my brother, I remember,
my brother was penalized in school,
I remember waiting for him outside
when I have to pick him up from school.
Because if he spoke one word of Spanish,
they had to write on the blackboard all day,
all the children said 500 times,
I will not speak Spanish in school.
I will not speak Spanish, 500 times.
And then they would take the lunch money as a fine.
I mean, people did not have any money,
and then the little money they gave him for lunch,
they would take him as a fine,
because they spoke Spanish in school.
So, that was part of the system completely and absolutely,
completely prohibited to speak it.
So, I said, I'm gonna speak English.
Nothing more difficult to do, in a small town in Texas,
at that time, in the fifties.
By then, it's the early sixties, I think,
late fifties,
no, early sixties, than to find a place (coughing)
to learn English.
I went trying to find a place to teach English,
I couldn't find one.
I went back and I asked Mrs. Kathleen and she told me,
why don't you go to the high school?
Not as a student, but simply go to the high school
and ask if you can stand in the back of the room
and listen to English being spoken,
so you can pick up some words.
I went, and Mrs. Single Horn, the counselor told me,
the record tell us that you retarded
and you are going to be, she said,
using a space that somebody else can use.
We cannot have you.
And then I went to the telephone company
because I saw in the newspaper that they were hiring
telephone operators.
I didn't want to be at the telephone operator,
but I figured they're going to teach me English,
I'm gonna be one.
And they told me,
no, because you don't have a high school diploma.
And then I went to Mercy Hospital,
because when the children were going to school,
I had gone as a volunteer.
The hospital was close to my house.
And I used to walk to the hospital as a volunteer.
As one of those ladies who deliver
the flowers and delivers the mail.
And I saw Sister Polycarp,
gave me a medal because I do my job so well,
she's gonna let me stand where the nurses
are learning English, not as a student,
but just to pick up some words.
And Sister Polycarp said,
no, because you don't have a high school diploma.
And I went back to Mrs. Kathleen and she said,
go to the community college,
maybe they will let you stand in the back of the room
and listen, not register, just pick up words.
I went, and they told me the same thing.
You don't have a high school diploma.
You know, Sandra, when I left that place, it was raining.
It raining real hard,
and of course, I was in a bus and walking.
And I was crying and I couldn't see where I was going
because I feel like,
all of us in life sometimes feel that way,
like a barrier has fallen in front of you
and you cannot go over it, and you cannot go under it.
And no matter what you do, you can go anywhere.
And I felt like this is it, I'm giving up.
And I went home and I fed my family and my children,
my husband, my grandchildren, my grandparents,
and I cried all night.
And the next morning I decided,
I think I learned the first rule to succeed in life.
You know, if you want something for somebody you love,
or for yourself, you better get in there and do it yourself,
and don't expect anybody else
or wait for anybody else to do it for you.
So, I went back to the community college,
but this time, I stopped one of the students,
his name is Joe Garito.
He was the city manager for Brownsville.
A few years back, I haven't talked to Joe lately.
I don't know what he's doing,
but I was now the distinguished alumni
for Texas Southmost College,
where I went and Joe Garito was invited to be with me
when I received the recognition,
because he's the one I stopped and I said,
excuse me, who makes the decisions in this place?
(speaking in foreign language)
The registrar.
He didn't tell me the admissions,
and he said, the registrar.
And my next question was, where does he park?
Now, when Reader's Digest, did my story,
and I told you that when they did my story,
they went in interview, Mr. Wooren.
And he remember me, who wouldn't?
Because he found I'd be sitting on top of his car
when he came to the parking lot.
And I told him...
(speaking in foreign language)
He saw me so excited.
He said, you have $25?
Well, at the time I didn't have $25,
I didn't have 25 cents, much less, $25.
He wanted me to take the GED, but I knew I wouldn't pass it.
'Cause I never went to school, I never went.
So, I knew I wouldn't pass it.
And he wanted me to take the GED.
I thought algebra was some kind of spaghetti.
I didn't know you need a pencil, all I knew I wouldn't pass.
And so, he gave me the opportunity to take classes
and what is called an individual approval basis.
And all of a sudden, I became a college student.
And I was the only adult in the school,
because at the time, in a little, small town,
it wasn't fashionable for her to go to school,
I was the only adult.
And the students thought that I was a plant
from the administration.
They thought that I was on the administration
and they were very unfriendly, at first.
But then, they realized gradually, the students realize,
that I was struggling, that I was trying very hard.
And an academic setting is really intimidating
when you're not used to it.
And they started helping me, especially Joe,
and then his brother Alfredo.
And they started helping me a lot.
And I had a lot of fears and a lot of trouble.
And then I used to study all night, get out real early,
send my children to school, my husband to work,
feed my grandparents and run to class.
And come back for lunch, because in the small towns,
at the time, husbands used to come home to eat lunch,
and then run back to school and it was chaotic and crazy.
And at first I thought, well, I'm not gonna make it,
but gradually I started learning how to,
but algebra was really scary
because they really gave me stomach aches, algebra.
It was a very difficult period of time.
But the bottom line is, finally I learned to learn,
and I stayed.
So, when people tell me, you don't have any high school,
no, I dropped out of first grade,
but I do have a bachelor's, I do have a master's,
I do have a doctorate and a lot of goes back a lot at work.
And so, what I tell the students and the reason my story
is interesting is because I told the students,
if I can do it, so can you,
and if I did it, so can you.
And I'm not a person who accepts many excuses,
especially not from me, but from the students much less.
He may see him come home, they'll say...
(speaking in foreign language)
You know, I'm still working.
I think I'm gonna hit 50 years pretty soon.
50 years, can you imagine?
maybe you've my son who lives next door and may say...
(speaking in foreign language)
Emergency room down the street.
(speaking in foreign language)
I think that they still motivate the students.
And that has been the job of my life,
to open door for students.
So, in a nutshell, that's my childhood.
You wouldn't expect that much,
but nevertheless, there it is.
And that's how I got to school and that's how I got here.
So, now ask.
Sandra: So, you go to Southmost College
and then you go to Pan American College?
(Guadalupe coughing)
What was your experience?
-: I had to learn to drive because I didn't drive,
and it's not in 40 miles away.
And the stories I could tell you about that,
but you know, we'll never finish,
but I had to learn to drive and there were four of us,
three guys, and I, going to Pan American.
And we used to leave at four o'clock in the morning
to get there at eight o'clock class, but to find parking,
you know how parking is a headache.
And the valley has a lot of fog,
deep, dense fog.
And I remember we used to park in the outskirts of the city,
wait for the bread truck or the milk truck
that delivered in the cafeteria
and in every part and follow it.
And then, the truck would stop and then we were going
to the cafeteria and we would park
and then wait until the classes started.
But that way we could follow the lights of the truck
and we could find parking.
That's why we live solely.
And I remember one morning we waited, the frog went by,
we follow it, and the truck, all of a sudden stopped,
we thought we are here fast, we got out of the car,
we don't see anything it's dense fog.
And then we hear moo, we're surrounded by cows,
because that mourning the truck veered to a ranch,
and we followed it.
So, we were late to class that day,
because we had to wait then until that fog dispelled.
Because, the truck,
I don't know why that morning went to a ranch.
So, the experiences that I can tell you
from my college career.
The interesting thing, Pan American university at the time,
had only one or two, one maybe,
Mr. Herrera, one Hispanic professor.
And that Hispanic professor was tougher on us, Hispanics.
And when I got to university of Houston,
after I got my bachelor's over there,
it was a very interesting story too,
because I started going to Pan American,
and then I ended up going
Tuesdays and Thursdays to Pan-American,
Monday, Wednesdays and Fridays stay in Texas Southmost,
the less year and I was carrying 21 hours,
and I finished in three years
and I graduated Summa Cum Laude.
Every time the FBI investigated me.
And I remember the agents kept calling me,
Dr. Q, there's a mistake on your academic records.
How so?
How?
Well, we got you going to the different institutions,
in two different cities, at the same time.
Well, there was no mistake, that's what I was doing.
I was going to two different institutions to finish
my AA in Brownsville and to get
the bachelor's going at Pan American.
This is what I was doing.
So, Mr. Herrera was,
I don't remember teaching literature or Spanish,
and I saw then what I saw later
at the University of Houston,
because when I got my bachelor's,
we were still in Brownsville.
And then my father, had moved by then to Houston
and my mother, they moved to Houston, and we started talking
about the University of Houston and I wanted to continue,
and then I started realizing, we stay in Brownsville.
It's only a community college here
and there were no medical schools,
and I wanted my children to have a terminal degree,
I called it a terminal degree.
And I knew that if we stayed in the Valley,
we were not going to do it.
So, I convinced my husband to come to Houston
and I continued going to university here,
I joined the university here.
And I started working as a grader.
I'm throwing away papers, that I have a lot of papers,
and I found my first check from the university
for working in grading papers for three professors,
for an entire month was $14.
That was my first check, $14.
And that's how I got in.
Then I started working as a teaching fellow,
now I was a teaching fellow.
When we were working on the Mexican American Studies,
and it was actually a group of students,
we initiated the idea of Mexican American Studies.
And I remember when they call me into the administration
to temporarily take care of Mexican American Studies
while somebody else was found interim.
And I don't know what gave me the strength or the idea,
but I remember sitting with Dr. Hoffman,
was the president at the time.
And I remember sitting with him and he told me,
well, we just want you to do an interim
while we look for somebody.
And I said, no, you give it to me as permanent,
I'll take it, but it's permanent.
And he looked at me and he said, okay.
And he had a secretary
who was his right hand all the time,
and he said to her, what do you think?
And she said, it's okay,
we're gonna bail her out in three days.
And I thought to myself, no, you're not.
So that's how I got the charge of Mexican American Studies.
Sandra: Can you tell us about the fight
for Mexican American Studies and the activist environment
from the Mexican record students at the time
when you were at the University of Houston?
-: The students were very active and there was a small group,
and I remember it was a group of very active students
who were pushing real hard for Mexican American Studies.
But the administration did not really have a plan
or a budget for Mexican American Studies.
They gave me the budget that was put together real fast
and the classes were to begin four or five days later.
And they gave me the budget to hire three lecturers,
not teachers, lecturers, and to develop the classes
and to recruit the students.
Either you do it or it doesn't start, the semester.
And then the money goes back to the budget.
And then maybe next semester,
then we go through the same process.
Well, I got the students and they mobilized themselves,
the group that was pushing,
and they call everybody they knew to register in the classes
that we didn't have a teacher for or a class, yet.
And the students got moving that direction
and I called people I knew, Leonel Castillo, (clears throat)
it wasn't Leonel, David--
Samantha: Lopez?
Sandra: David Lopez?
-: David Lopez and Luis Cano
I got those three.
And to get the classes going--
Samantha: Why did you choose those three lecturers?
-: Because I knew them,
and because I knew they would agree to come and help,
and because it was critical
to get the program off the ground,
because if we didn't, we would lose the money.
Samantha: How did you come across
these three individuals?
How did you know them?
-: Because when I moved to Houston,
I became extremely active in the community.
And the reason I did is because I have to voice.
And the first thing I heard was that,
there was a lot of racism in the police department
and that I like the youngsters, the Hispanic youngsters,
were stopped by the police.
And student even ask, why did you stop me?
They would hang cuff him and take him
because they were calling resisting arrest.
This was the reputation the police department had.
And I was very frightened about what happened with my boys?
And as a matter of fact, no, it was very real.
Herman Short was the police chief at the time.
And he had the reputation
of being very difficult with minority people.
But also because once I got to the university,
I talked to, at the time, I was introduced to Eddie Corral.
Eddie at the time,
he became the first Mexican American fire chief
in the history of Houston.
And Eddie, helped me a lot,
because Eddie introduce me to the leadership in Houston.
And there was only one woman
who was extremely active at the time, Olga Gallegos.
Olga was very active.
Her daughter is an attorney now.
But Olga was very, very active.
The people of my generation, the women,
there's only one alive, Dorothy Caram,
the rest of them are dead.
But I made it my business to know the leaders
of the community because I was afraid
of the police for my children.
And I made it my business to understand,
and especially to know attorneys.
And so, I got to David Lopez and to Judge Hernandez,
who was the first Mexican American judge
in the history of Houston.
And I met all the leadership through Eddie.
And this how I knew about Lionel and David.
I talked to David about what do I do to protect my children?
And he said to me, Mita, I'll give you some cards,
and if they get stopped or anything,
tell them not to say anything but just,
sir, yes, sir, yes, sir, and call me.
So, they gave me the idea,
and what we did is I talked to different attorneys
in the city, they were about five at the time, four, maybe,
and we got cards from them.
And then we went to the schools and through the chancellors,
we got permission to talk to the students
and then we put them together and we told them,
if you get stopped by the police, this is what you do,
you just say, yes, sir, yes or sir.
Do not ask questions or not anything.
You have the right to one phone call,
carry this in your wallet.
And we gave them cards from the attorneys.
That was the first thing we did,
knowing they had cards.
Sandra: What neighborhood did you settle in
when you moved to Houston,
and what schools were you going
to when you offered this project?
-: We settle in the Southeast close to Ripley House.
And we settled there and we went to Eastwood.
We went to, I don't remember now,
we went to the Austin, we went to Jefferson,
we went to the predominantly Hispanic schools
and gave cards.
And then, something very interesting happened.
My children were, wherever we lived,
they were supposed to go to Hartman Junior High,
which is black.
And I started working at night,
besides going to a university and working at the university
at the daytime, I was working at night
to put money together, to send them to a private school.
And I pulled them out of Harmon
and they went to Mount Carmel,
and it was a private school.
But when mine were in Hartman,
I mean, mine were in Mount Carmel.
I started hearing what was happening
because I was very involved and being sure
that they were implementing bilingual programs
in the schools because I knew what had happened to me.
And I wanted to be sure.
And I'm one of the four people who developed
the bilingual plan for the state of Texas at the time,
because I wanted maintenance.
I didn't want a transition.
Transition, you learn English and forget the Spanish.
And I wanted maintenance, meaning,
you learn English, but you maintain your Spanish.
That's what I wanted.
I'm surprised Raina is not here.
Anyway, so, what happened then was,
the order came down to integrate the schools
and probably you heard this already,
but the school district started integrating the schools
by busing, Hispanic children to African American schools.
And that's how they were integrating the schools.
And we met every plan.
We decided that's not the way, that's not fair.
There's not integration.
It's not following the law.
And, no, we don't like it.
So, then we started the little bilingual schools
Samantha: The Huelga Schools?
-: The Huelga Schools, yeah.
We pulled the children out of school
because we learn that the way the schools get the money
is by the number of children who attend.
That's how the state pays them, any of the names.
So, when we pull the children out of school by the hundreds,
that hit economically, because then, they were not getting
the money that they were getting before.
So, we pulled the children out
and the Huelga Schools,
and they went for a while until
the school system decided to legitimately
integrate the schools.
Samantha: Did you teach them (indistinct) teach?
-: Yeah.
My dissertation was based on what is the beginning
of the bilingual programs across the United States.
And it's the Little School of the 400, we used to call it,
because it started here in Houston
by a man by the name of Felix Tijerina ,
who had a restaurant on Westheimer.
And he started little schools to teach children,
Hispanic children who didn't speak English, 400 words.
And that's why, the way I started, he gave me the idea
from the dissertation to teach 400 words.
The words that I thought were more necessary and important,
but also we tried to follow the books
that the children had in school,
wherever they were so that they wouldn't be behind
when they went back.
So, we had a combination of any words that we thought
they needed, but following the program that the school
had to be sure the kids or the children did not fall behind.
Like, was really interesting.
Samantha: Do you remember anyone else
that was also teaching the children?
-: Nelly Fraga, Felix Fraga, Dorothy, (indistinct)
Is the core.
It was a very small core,
but I'm sure you interview Felix and Ellie,
they're still working very hard, those two.
Felix is an icon, yeah.
Sandra: And where would you have the students
in the Huelga School--
-: In the community centers.
Whatever we could find space, but they didn't fall behind.
But it was a very interesting time.
Samantha: Beyond fighting against the integration,
the force integration, the AGIF team,
what were some of the demands
of those that were in the Huelga School Movement?
-: I think at the time, the demand was concentrated,
not integrated fairly.
That's what we wanted at the time.
We want to just to integrate fairly.
And we want our children to be recognized as students
who deserve all the support and the new books
and everything else that the other ones had,
because the schools that had predominant Hispanic children
were not receiving the new books and the new crayons,
and the new things that the other ones were receiving.
But those were very interesting times.
And I remember reading
with the Little School of the 400 and Felix giving us notes.
I didn't see that, but they used to have Mexican schools,
remember?
And I remember I talked to one gentleman
when I was doing research for my dissertation, who said,
he went to one of those schools
and they didn't have water forces, they had to go drink
water where the cows were drinking the water,
because they didn't have water in the schools,
in the Mexican schools, and that's awful.
And I remember one of the attorneys, Alfredo Hernandez,
telling me that, because they went through the march,
to get the recognition for the veterans,
because Mexican Americans used to come dead from the war,
and they could not be buried in the cemetery.
They had to go to a different cemetery
and they saw the G.I. Forum grew up.
Then the G.I. Forum came up.
It's very interesting history and development
and a lot of people have fought very hard.
Look at LULAC.
I mean, Ellis Barrera, I remember Ellis.
They fought so hard for recognition of the veterans.
We have had Hispanic people fighting in old France.
My friend has been education,
my friend has been opening doors
for students at the university.
And something interesting at the University of Houston,
that I got to tell you,
because there was a man by the name of Juan Flores.
I don't know where Juan is now.
He was the superintendent
for the schools in Corpus some years back,
and I lost track of Juan.
But Juan Flores and I were the ones studying
for the doctorate at the University of Houston.
And do you know that we were denied admission
to the doctoral program?
And by then I had learned to question.
And I remember when I used to study together
and we were so poor,
we used to put pennies together
between the two of us to buy one cup of coffee.
And we used to sit from the same cup
where we study, I remember.
And they denied us acceptance.
And we went inside store one, we're not taking this.
He said, well, I'll apply someplace else.
No, we've got to find out, why?
And I remember waiting forever to be seen by the chairman.
And the chairman told me, well,
it's because of your records.
What specifically?
Why the records, what is the records?
There's a transcript.
And so, then I knew by then I didn't stop with the chairman.
Then I went to the Dean
and they wouldn't give me an appointment.
So, I remember sitting in the dean's office,
with one, a drug one...
(speaking in foreign language)
And I remember sitting in the dean's office
for the longest time until he finally saw us.
And he told me it was because of our grades.
I had a 3.9 and he did 3.7, for our grades.
And I said, really, what's the grade?
What's the point?
What's the average?
And he said, well, this is what I've been told,
that you don't have the grades,
but I had transcripts ready,
and I'm okay, well, here's the transcript.
Tell me, 2.5?
He said okay.
3.9.
So, why not?
So he accepted as right on.
There was a lot of discrimination at the university.
Samantha: Can you tell us about that?
-: Well, Juan and I were a good example.
And I thought to myself,
I wonder how many students have been stopped?
And there was a lot of emphasis on recruitment,
but there was no emphasis at all on retention,
no emphasis at all on retention.
So, I couldn't understand why.
And that's one of the reasons I got into administration,
because I figured, if I go into administration central,
because I was already in Mexican American Studies by then,
because I was working and doing my doctorate,
I was hired as a director, without a doctorate.
And I wanted to be in the central administration
because I figured then I can influence and I can see,
but it is very difficult because decisions are made,
but let's say, about 16 different people
and you're one vote.
So, how can you influence anything?
Sandra: So, you become the first
Latina, Hispanic administrator at the University of Houston,
through your role in Summa.
Can you tell us about what that meant and your experience?
-: I think I became the first administrator,
sincerely...
(speaking in foreign language)
Female Voice: (indistinct)
-: I became the first administrator sincerely,
because there was nobody else.
He didn't have anything to do with anything other
than there was nobody else.
And also because I had the therein attitude of,
if you give it to me as mine
and they didn't have a choice,
and I worked very hard to get the money
because I went to Houston multiple times to get funded.
(speaking in foreign language)
Sandra: So, you were talking about retention,
and I wanted to know a little bit about your efforts
and securing funds for Summa students,
and how were you trying to retain
Mexican American students during your tenure as director.
-: By getting funds from the legislature,
to be sure that Mexican American Studies continued,
that was a number one priority.
And then getting more money to hire more teachers
and develop more courses.
So, we started growing and then I made an arrangement
with the university.
I wrote a plan where, and I made negotiations
with central administration to where,
if a department hire a Mexican American
or a Hispanic professor, the department will pay half
and the administration will pay half.
So there was an incentive for the department
to hire Hispanics, we didn't have any.
I brought Tatcho, I brought Michael Olivas.
You name it, I got him here.
That I thought that was one way of retaining students
by having role models and professors who would care
about the Hispanic students and understand them better.
And then I developed a program called Partners in Education,
where I negotiated with administration, and it wasn't easy.
It wasn't easy because I had a lot of fights
actually from the African American leaders
who thought it was unfair because they wanted the funds
that I was getting to go to African Americans and Hispanics.
And my argument was, I'll tell you how to do it,
or what I get is for Hispanics.
And the partners in education,
I worked very hard all throughout the community
to recruit funds, to get money for scholarships
and the university would match it.
And so, that we would retain the students that we had
because we were losing some,
we couldn't get some of the students to stay
because they didn't have the money to pay for their tuition.
That was one.
And the other one was, they were working
so hard to pay for their tuition.
The grades were suffering.
And so, we were not retaining them for the reason.
Let's take a break, cause I need to go to the bathroom.